[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I've also noticed that almost everyone in Minnesota is American. By following the logic of the right wing brain trust on this thread, it must mean that all Americans are Minnesotans, and we shouldn't believe anyone who claims differently.

Let's go down to Buffalo or Detroit and let these people know how much the Vikings suck. That'll teach them to support a football team with a child abuser!

"Whatabouttery" for the fail.

[BeaverFever]

Hardly whataboutery. Showing that your logic of judging an entire group by the characteristics of small segment of that groups fails

Saying that "Most extremists are muslim, therefore most muslims are extremists" is no different than saying "Most Minnesotans are American, therefore most Americans are Minnesotans".

Get it?

[grainfedprairieboy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Saying that "Most extremists are muslim, therefore most muslims are extremists" is no different than saying "Most Minnesotans are American, therefore most Americans are Minnesotans".

Get it?

"It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims,"

"The majority of those who manned the suicide bombings against buses, vehicles, schools, houses and buildings, all over the world, were Muslim," he wrote. "What a pathetic record. What an abominable 'achievement.' Does this tell us anything about ourselves, our societies and our culture?"

- Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, general manager satellite television station Al Arabiya

[N_Fiddledog]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Hardly whataboutery. Showing that your logic of judging an entire group by the characteristics of small segment of that groups fails

Saying that "Most extremists are muslim, therefore most muslims are extremists" is no different than saying "Most Minnesotans are American, therefore most Americans are Minnesotans".

Get it?

You're making a false comparison though, because it's based on a false premise.

Nobody has said most extremists are Muslim. You're having this ferocious battle with yourself. I don't see anybody else in it. Remember when you called strawman? That's what an actual strawman argument looks like.

What I personally would say is Orthodox Islam or Islam that follows the abrogated word of Mohammed of Medina lends itself to violent jihadi activity or more specific to the case mentioned in the OP, practices such as beheading. I would say if one is influenced by that orthodox abrogated ideology, the practice could be seen as ideologically motivated, or at least inspired.

What that might have to do with Minnesota I haven't a clue.

[N_Fiddledog]

Here's a clue as to how the foundational process of jihad begins.

It's an interview with a convert to the Mosque the Oklahoma beheader attended.



Let me be clear here though. This is not to say all attendees of this mosque are therefore violent Jihadis. It is to say this is where the mind of the potential jihadi can begin to ferment. I'm told the internet doesn't help either. You can find the influence of ideological jihadis among the beheader's Facebook friends.

[BartSimpson]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

You can find the influence of ideological jihadis among the beheader's Facebook friends.

One of them has an interesting avatar...

[BeaverFever]

grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Saying that "Most extremists are muslim, therefore most muslims are extremists" is no different than saying "Most Minnesotans are American, therefore most Americans are Minnesotans".

Get it?

"It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims,"

"The majority of those who manned the suicide bombings against buses, vehicles, schools, houses and buildings, all over the world, were Muslim," he wrote. "What a pathetic record. What an abominable 'achievement.' Does this tell us anything about ourselves, our societies and our culture?"

- Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, general manager satellite television station Al Arabiya

It tells us about as much as the KKK and Aryan Nations tell us about Americans. It's part of the story; that they exist at all is relevant, but it's not the defining trait of the larger group.

[BeaverFever]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

You're making a false comparison though, because it's based on a false premise.

Nobody has said most extremists are Muslim. You're having this ferocious battle with yourself. I don't see anybody else in it. Remember when you called strawman? That's what an actual strawman argument looks like.

What I personally would say is Orthodox Islam or Islam that follows the abrogated word of Mohammed of Medina lends itself to violent jihadi activity or more specific to the case mentioned in the OP, practices such as beheading. I would say if one is influenced by that orthodox abrogated ideology, the practice could be seen as ideologically motivated, or at least inspired.

That comment doesn't seem to square with your earlier post on this thread (and about 1000 others you've made over the years):

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

Suhaib Webb, is hailed as a moderate by liberals in the United States

Moderates in Islam aren't the same as moderates in the secular world

Ten Reasons Why Moderate Muslims Are Not the Answer

[N_Fiddledog]

Well I didn't make that graphic. I just found it and shared, because that and the link added to the sense of what the quoted poster said.

But I get it, and I would add there is truth in it. There are orthodox or good Muslims, who are bad people. They follow the word of the pirate of Medina to the letter. These are what you would call "Muslim extremists".

There are others who are laying claim to the term "moderate" Muslims. I think these are the devious weasels like say CAIR representives. They are what I heard a guy in the UK call "mendacious grievance mongering Taggiya artists." Those guys claim to speak for a third category. They are representing themselves as what they call "the moderates", but they're full of crap.

It's just nuance, but I personally disagree with people like say the UK political party in the link, who don't make a distinction between the second category and what I will call a third.

The third is what I would call good people, but bad Muslims. They're the ones who in the west just want to get along. and hoped to leave all that crap from the other two categories behind them when they tried to escape the old word. But they'll play the religion game without knowing a whole lot about what Mohammed actually asked them to do. They don't think Mohammed actually wanted them to behead, or failing that cheerlead the activity. Precious little snowflakes.


Which come to think of it reminds me of the originator of that term - Bill Whittle. He'll let you know what it's really about.

[N_Fiddledog]

Or do put it another way. As regards this...

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

That comment doesn't seem to square with your earlier post on this thread (and about 1000 others you've made over the years):

Bullshit.

[grainfedprairieboy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

It tells us about as much as the KKK and Aryan Nations tell us about Americans. It's part of the story; that they exist at all is relevant, but it's not the defining trait of the larger group.

You would be right if the KKK or Aryan Nations were multi national and committing daily murders numbering on some days in the thousands and others in the hundreds in pursuit of their ideological objective.

What you fail to grasp or choose to ignore is that a significant number of Muslims polled globally believe violence to promote or defend Islam is acceptable and how this fact then translate into a significant minority who act upon that belief. Nothing else, no other group, not even every other ideology or religious extremists in the world combined compares to the death and destruction committed in the name of Islam on any given day.

Here's some figures for you to dismiss:

CM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... in-UK.html

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/ ... 2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.
http://people-press.org/report/206/a-ye ... r-iraq-war

YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/04/ ... fanticide/
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 51,00.html

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:
(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/ ... 09_rpt.pdf

Pew Research (2010): 55% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hezbollah
30% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hezbollah
45% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hezbollah (26% negative)
43% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hezbollah (30% negative)
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims ... hezbollah/

Pew Research (2010): 60% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hamas (34% negative).
49% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hamas (48% negative)
49% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hamas (25% negative)
39% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hamas (33% negative)
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims ... hezbollah/

Pew Research (2010): 15% of Indonesians believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
34% of Nigerian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims ... hezbollah/

16% of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is "acceptable".
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1275/Islam/art ... baar.dhtml

Populus Poll (2006): 12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified. 1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops.
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... h-islamist

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/musli ... df#page=60

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (81% never).
28% of Egyptian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (38% never).
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/ ... extremism/

Pew Research (2007): Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/musli ... df#page=60

ICM: 5% of Muslims in Britain tell pollsters they would not report a planned Islamic terror attack to authorities.
27% do not support the deportation of Islamic extremists preaching violence and hate.
http://www.scotsman.com/?id=1956912005
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... amist.html

Federation of Student Islamic Societies: About 1 in 5 Muslim students in Britain (18%) would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack.
http://www.fosis.org.uk/sac/FullReport.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... h-islamist

ICM Poll: 25% of British Muslims disagree that a Muslim has an obligation to report terrorists to police.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/20 ... 0Nov04.asp
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... h-islamist

Populus Poll (2006): 16% of British Muslims believe suicide attacks against Israelis are justified.
37% believe Jews in Britain are a "legitimate target".
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... h-islamist

Pew Research (2013): At least 1 in 4 Muslims do not reject violence against civilians (study did not distinguish between those who believe it is partially justified and never justified).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/T ... report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 15% of Muslims in Turkey support suicide bombings (also 11% in Kosovo, 26% in Malaysia and 26% in Bangladesh).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/T ... report.pdf

PCPO (2014): 89% of Palestinians support Hamas and other terrorists firing rockets at Israeli civilians.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/poll- ... -on-israel


al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden and Islamic State (ISIS)

Pew Research (2007): 5% of American Muslims have a favorable view of al-Qaeda (27% can’t make up their minds). Only 58% reject al-Qaeda outright.
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/musli ... df#page=60

Pew Research (2011): 5% of American Muslims have a favorable view of al-Qaeda (14% can’t make up their minds).
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/ ... extremism/

Pew Research (2011): 1 in 10 native-born Muslim-Americans have a favorable view of al-Qaeda.
http://people-press.org/2011/08/30/musl ... extremism/

al-Jazeera (2006): 49.9% of Muslims polled support Osama bin Laden
http://terrorism.about.com/b/2006/09/11 ... -laden.htm

Pew Research: 59% of Indonesians support Osama bin Laden in 2003
41% of Indonesians support Osama bin Laden in 2007
56% of Jordanians support Osama bin Laden in 2003
http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/15/iran-t ... erman.html

Pew Global: 51% of Palestinians support Osama bin Laden
54% of Muslim Nigerians Support Osama bin Laden
http://frontpagemag.com/2010/02/10/blinded-by-hate/
http://pewglobal.org/files/pdf/268.pdf

MacDonald Laurier Institute: 35% of Canadian Muslims would not repudiate al-Qaeda
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/01/st ... -in-canada
http://www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/much-goo ... in-canada/

World Public Opinion: Muslim majorities agree with the al-Qaeda goal of Islamic law.
Muslim majorities agree with al-Qaeda goal of keeping Western values out of Islamic countries;
(Egypt: 88%; Indonesia 76%; Pakistan 60%; Morocco 64%)
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/ ... 09_rpt.pdf

ICM Poll: 13% of Muslim in Britain support al-Qaeda attacks on America.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/20 ... h-2004.asp
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... h-islamist

World Public Opinion: Attitude toward Osama bin Laden:
Egypt: 44% positive, 17% negative, and 25% mixed feelings
Indonesia: 14% positive, 26% negative, 21% mixed feelings (39% did not answer)
Pakistan: 25% positive, 15% negative, 26% mixed feelings (34% did not answer)
Morocco: 27% positive, 21% negative, 26% mixed feelings
Jordanians, Palestinians, Turks and Azerbaijanis. Jordanians combined for: 27% positive, 20 percent negative, and 27 percent mixed feelings. (Palestinians 56% positive, 20% negative, 22 percent mixed feelings).
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/ ... 09_rpt.pdf

Pew Research (2010): 49% of Nigerian Muslims have favorable view of al-Qaeda (34% unfavorable)
23% of Indonesians have favorable view of al-Qaeda (56% unfavorable)
34% of Jordanians have favorable view of al-Qaeda
25% of Indonesians have "confidence" in Osama bin Laden (59% had confidence in 2003)
1 in 5 Egyptians have "confidence" in Osama bin Laden
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims ... hezbollah/

Pew Research (2011): 22% of Indonesians have a favorable view of al-Qaeda (21% unfavorable)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/ ... extremism/

Gallup: 51% of Pakistanis grieve Osama bin Laden (only 11% happy over death)
44% of Pakistanis viewed Osama bin Laden as a martyr (only 28% as an oulaw)
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... _alli.html

Zogby International 2011: “Majorities in all six countries said they viewed the United States less favorably following the killing of the Al-Qaeda head [Osama bin Laden] in Pakistan”
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 926c28.c11
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/che ... _blog.html

Populus Survey: 18% of British Muslims would be proud or indifferent if a family member joined al-Qaeda.
http://www.populuslimited.com/poll_summ ... es_ITV.htm
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... h-islamist

Policy Exchange (2006): 7% Muslims in Britain admire al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images ... es/246.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... h-islamist

Informal poll of Saudis in August 2014 shows 92% agree that Islamic State (ISIS) "conforms to the values of Islam and Islamic law."
http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2 ... aw-survey/



9/11 Attacks

al-Arabiya: 36% of Arabs polled said the 9/11 attacks were morally justified; 38% disagreed; 26% Unsure
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/ ... 66274.html

Gallup: 38.6% of Muslims believe 9/11 attacks were justified (7% "fully", 6.5% "mostly", 23.1% "partially")
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... slims.html
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/temp ... p?CID=1154

Pew Research (2011): Large majorities of Muslims believe in 9/11 conspiracy
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/2066/muslim ... ptember-11



Violence in Defense of Islam

40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailwee ... 060728.@03

Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
http://cnsnews.com/node/53865 (Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)

Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... a-law.html
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/pdf/IslamonCampus.pdf

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLaw ... ForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/ ... 2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

NOP Research: Hardcore Islamists comprise 9% of Britain's Muslim population;
Another 29% would "aggressively defend" Islam;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/ ... 2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims ... hezbollah/

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for religious or political ends acceptable.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/20 ... 0Nov04.asp
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... h-islamist

Terrorism Research Institute Study: 51% of mosques in the U.S. have texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% have texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% have no violent texts at all.
http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/ind ... urvey/html

Pew Research (2013): 76% of South Asian Muslims and 56% of Egyptians advocate killing anyone who leaves the Islamic religion.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/T ... report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 19% of Muslim Americans believe suicide bombings in defense of Islam are at least partially justified (global average is 28% in countries surveyed).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/T ... report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 39% of Muslims in Malaysia say suicide bombings "justified" in defense of Islam (only 58% say 'never').
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/side ... joshua-woo

Die Presse (2013): 1 in 5 Muslims in Austria believe that anyone wanting to leave Islam should be killed.
http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2 ... democracy/



Sharia (Islamic Law)

83% of Pakistanis support stoning adulterers
78% of Pakistanis support killing apostates
http://www.realcourage.org/2009/08/paki ... te-deaths/

Center for Social Cohesion: 40% of British Muslim students want Sharia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... a-law.html
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/pdf/IslamonCampus.pdf

ICM Poll: 40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... in-UK.html

GfK NOP: 28% of British Muslims want Britain to be an Islamic state
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLaw ... ForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/ ... 2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

MacDonald Laurier Institute: 62% of Muslims want Sharia in Canada (15% say make it mandatory)
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/01/st ... -in-canada
http://www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/much-goo ... in-canada/

World Public Opinion: 81% of Egyptians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Pakistanis want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
49% (plurality) of Indonesians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Moroccans want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/ ... 09_rpt.pdf

World Public Opinion: 64% of Egyptians said it was “very important for the government” to “apply traditional punishments for crimes such as stoning adulterers.”
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/ ... 09_rpt.pdf

Pew Research (2010): 77% of Egyptian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
58% of Jordanian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
36% of Indonesian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
82% of Pakistanis favor floggings and amputation
65% of Nigerian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims ... hezbollah/

Pew Research (2010): 82% of Egyptian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
70% of Jordanian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
42% of Indonesian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
82% of Pakistanis favor stoning adulterers
56% of Nigerian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims ... hezbollah/

Pew Research (2013): 72% of Indonesians want Sharia to be law of the land
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/sev ... pew-forum/

Pew Research (2013): 81% of South Asian Muslims and 57% of Egyptians suport amputating limbs for theft.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/T ... report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): According to an interpretation of this study, approximately 45% of Sharia supporters surveyed disagreed with the idea that Islamic law should apply only to Muslims.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/T ... report.pdf

Economist (Pew 2013): 74% who favor Islamic law in Egypt say it should apply to non-Muslims as well.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicd ... iadolikeit

WZB Berlin Social Science Center: 65% of Muslims in Europe say Sharia is more important than the law of the country they live in.
http://www.wzb.eu/en/research/migration ... n-comparat
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4092/ ... amentalism



Honor Killings

Turkish Ministry of Education: 1 in 4 Turks Support Honor Killings
http://www.realcourage.org/2009/03/turkey-war-on-women/
http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail_g ... &bolum=100

Civitas: 1 in 3 Muslims in the UK strongly agree that a wife should be forced to obey her husband's bidding
http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SURVE ... wnload.pdf
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLaw ... ForAll.pdf

BBC Poll: 1 in 10 British Muslims support killing a family member over "dishonor".
http://www.expressandstar.com/blogs/pet ... ur-nation/

Middle East Quarterly: 91 percent of honor killings are committed by Muslims worldwide.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/43207

95% of honor killings in the West are perpetrated by Muslim fathers and brothers or their proxies.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... tful-name/

A survey of Muslim women in Paris suburbs found that three-quarters of them wear their masks out of fear - including fear of violence.
http://www.nugget.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3402230

Two-thirds of young British Muslims agree that 'honor' violence is acceptable.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... veals.html

Pew Research (2013): Large majorities of Muslims favor Sharia. Among those who do, stoning women for adultery is favored by 89% in Pakistanis, 85% in Afghanistan, 81% in Egypt, 67% in Jordan, ~50% in 'moderate' Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand, 58% in Iraq, 44% in Tunisia, 29% in Turkey, and 26% in Russia.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/T ... report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): Honor killing the woman for sex outside of marriage is favored over honor killing the man in almost every Islamic country. Over half of Muslims surveyed believed that honor killings over sex were at least partially justified.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/T ... report.pdf

(2013) Jordanian teens support honor killing.
http://www.france24.com/en/20130620-jor ... fied-study



Assimilation

Muslims have highest claimed disability rates in the UK (24% of men, 21% of women)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... a-law.html

2011: 16% of UK prisoners in 2010 are Muslim (Muslims comprise about 3% of the total population)
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpres ... 500798601A

Pakistani Muslims in the UK are three times more likely to be unemployed than Hindus. Indian Muslims are twice as likely to be unemployed as Indian Hindus.
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/daniel-gre ... failure/2/

Policy Exchange: 1 in 4 Muslims in the UK have never heard of the Holocaust;
Only 34% of British Muslims believe the Holocaust ever happened.
http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SURVE ... wnload.pdf
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLaw ... ForAll.pdf

Policy Exchange: 51% of British Muslims believe a woman cannot marry a non-Muslim
Only 51% believe a Muslim woman may marry without a guardian's consent
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLaw ... ForAll.pdf

Policy Exchange: Up to 52% of British Muslims believe a Muslim man is entitled to up to four wives
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLaw ... ForAll.pdf

Policy Exchange: 61% of British Muslims want homosexuality punished
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLaw ... ForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 62% of British Muslims do not believe in the protection of free speech;
Only 3% adopt a "consistently pro-freedom of speech line"
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/ ... 2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

ICM Poll: 58% of British Muslims believe insulting Islam should result in criminal prosecution
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/20 ... 0Nov04.asp
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... h-islamist

Pew Global (2006): Only 7% of British Muslims think of themselves as British first (81% say 'Muslim' rather than 'Briton')
http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/254.pdf

Policy Exchange (2006): 31% Muslims in Britain identify more with Muslims in other countries than with non-Muslim Brits.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images ... es/246.pdf

Die Welt (2012): 46% of Muslims in Germany hope there will eventually be more Muslims than Christians in Germany.
http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/ ... rheit.html

Ipsos MORI: Muslims are 3 times as likely as Christians to believe that their religion is the only way.
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/r ... /28257.htm

Pew Research (2011): Muslim-Americans four times more likely to say that women should not work outside the home.
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/ ... al-values/

Pew Research (2007): 26% of Muslim-Americans want to be distinct (43% support assimilation)
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/musli ... df#page=60

Pew Research (2011): 20% of Muslim-Americans want to be distinct (56% support assimilation)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/ ... extremism/

Pew Research (2011): 49% of Muslim-Americans say they are "Muslim first" (26% American first)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/ ... extremism/

Pew Research (2011): 21% of Muslim-Americans say there is a fair to great amount of support for Islamic extremism in their community.
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/ ... gn-policy/

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for political ends acceptable
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/20 ... 0Nov04.asp
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... h-islamist

Wenzel Strategies (2012): 58% of Muslim-Americans believe criticism of Islam or Muhammad is not protected free speech under the First Amendment.
45% believe mockers of Islam should face criminal charges (38% said they should not).
12% of Muslim-Americans believe blaspheming Islam should be punishable by death.
43% of Muslim-Americans believe people of other faiths have no right to evangelize Muslims.
32% of Muslims in America believe that Sharia should be the supreme law of the land.
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2012/1 ... xpression/
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2012/10 ... lieve.html

Pew Research (2013): "At least half' of Muslims surveyed believed polygamy is morally acceptable.
"Muslims in most countries surveyed say that a wife should always obey her husband." (including 93% in Indonesia and 65% in Turkey).
Only 32% of Muslims in Indonesia say a woman should have the right to divorce her husband (22% in Egypt, 26% in Pakistan and 60% in Russia).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/T ... report.pdf

Die Presse (2013): 1 in 3 Muslims in Austria say it is not possible to be a European and a Muslim. 22% oppose democracy
http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2 ... democracy/

WZB Berlin Social Science Center: 45% of Muslims in Europe say Jews cannot be trusted.
http://www.wzb.eu/en/research/migration ... n-comparat
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4092/ ... amentalism

[BeaverFever]

$1:

You would be right if the KKK or Aryan Nations were multi national and committing daily murders numbering on some days in the thousands and others in the hundreds in pursuit of their ideological objective.

So even though KKK is a small part of the US population, I would be right to treat all American as KKK members, if only they were more violent? Is that what you're saying?

[grainfedprairieboy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

So even though KKK is a small part of the US population, I would be right to treat all American as KKK members, if only they were more violent? Is that what you're saying?

If they were more violent, more numerous, less reasonable and found in every country on Earth and controlled a whole bunch of those countries....then yup, they'd be just like Muslims and you could then be right.

[Thanos]

Whether they're a majority of Muslims doesn't matter. The fact is that the jihadis who do the killing, the fundamentalists that support and finance it, and the conservatives that sympathize with it all form a sizeably enough minority that they can essentially direct the course of the entire religion. "Majority rules" is nonsensical enough of a concept in a real democracy but when applied to a religion like Islam it's absolutely ridiculous.

[andyt]

Thanos Thanos:

Whether they're a majority of Muslims doesn't matter. The fact is that the jihadis who do the killing, the fundamentalists that support and finance it, and the conservatives that sympathize with it all form a sizeably enough minority that they can essentially direct the course of the entire religion. "Majority rules" is nonsensical enough of a concept in a real democracy but when applied to a religion like Islam it's absolutely ridiculous.

How does this minority direct the course of the religion? That would mean that all Muslims essentially follow jihad, yet as you say, it's only a sizeable minority. (no disagreement there). I don't think that's true, and if we act as if it is, it would only drive the peaceable majority into the arms of the jihadis.

People make much of the fact that many Muslims want to see sharia law practiced, even in western countries. Yet, we have a sizable portion of US christians, including ones at the levers of power, who want to create a Christian state in the US, we even have some of those in Canada. It hasn't happened, nobody here foams and raves about it. Same deal with the Muslims. They can want what they want, doesn't mean they're going to get it.

We'ed better give the peaceable Muslims a place to go, a way to feel welcome here, or we'll just create the very thing we worry about.