[Newsbot]

Title: What kind of military can Canada afford?
Category: Misc CDN
Posted By: Hyack
Date: 2012-11-12 22:45:09
Canadian

[bootlegga]

We're going to lose a capability or two - the only question is which one.

[Shadow_Flanker]

The article was a good read. Seems that the CF will be heading down the same road it had with Chretien and the Libs back in the 90s.

However, I am a little confused with the article when it came to not having any "mission" and troops being "bored". I remember top brass at DNDHQ commenting that the forces, particularly the army, will need at least one year (preferably a few more) inorder to fully recuperate/reorganize from the current missions in Afghanistan and elsewhere. That measn no peacekeeping, disaster relief, coalition interventions, etc. whatsoever. I don't get what the big deal is with having constant foreign deployments if what The Forces need is rest and boredom.

[andyt]

Despite attempts to portray the forces as only interested in pure and noble objectives, it's like any other organization that tries to guard its turf. Careers are enhanced when there's a mission, raison d'etre as well. If there's no deployment, they are in danger of being forgotten. So better to deploy, even if the mission is futile, like it became in Astan. I mean Canada took on the heavy lifting it did in Astan (probably beyond its weight class) because it wanted cred with the other NATO countries and to make up for not joining Iraq. I always hear about how soldiers hate war, yet it doesn't matter the war, soldiers seem real eager to join it, even if the mission doesn't make much sense. I guess it's the old hammer and nail thing.

[Newfy]

Hope you don't get cutback as much as we are. I'm waiting to find out if I'm in the next round of redundancies.

[saturn_656]

Newfy Newfy:

Hope you don't get cutback as much as we are. I'm waiting to find out if I'm in the next round of redundancies.

Unlike what is going on in the UK, the intent in Canada is to shield the "pointy end" and procurement programs from any major cuts. Over 1,000 civvie positions were cut but AFAIK no soldiers have been laid off. Plans to increase the size of regular and reserve force are on hold.

[Newfy]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Newfy Newfy:

Hope you don't get cutback as much as we are. I'm waiting to find out if I'm in the next round of redundancies.

Unlike what is going on in the UK, the intent in Canada is to shield the "pointy end" and procurement programs from any major cuts. Over 1,000 civvie positions were cut but AFAIK no soldiers have been laid off. Plans to increase the size of regular and reserve force are on hold.

That's good for Canada, where as we're just getting dry humped by the government here. 20,000 regulars to go which means a drop from 102,000 to 82,000. But they plan to increase the Reserves from 15,000 to 30,000. No disrespect to the part timers but how can they expect them to take on a bigger role, in many cases doing the jobs that the regulars did? Plus trying to recruit 15,000 new reserve troops and getting their civi employers on board.

[Freakinoldguy]

The question shouldn't be what kind of Military can Canada afford it should be what kind of Military will Canada pay for?

[Gunnair]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

The question shouldn't be what kind of Military can Canada afford it should be what kind of Military will Canada pay for?

Same thing really - not much.

[Freakinoldguy]

True and it's always been that way for our military.

Now that the Afghanistan mission has wound down the Army will be relegated to that other back burner along with the Navy and Air Force.

When I was in we had a theory that the Liberals took care of the troops and when the Conservatives got in they took care of the equipment. Well it appears that theory has been shot to shit by successive governments who despite their white papers have failed to follow though on a lot of the recommendations be it troops or equipment.

[Jonny_C]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

The question shouldn't be what kind of Military can Canada afford it should be what kind of Military will Canada pay for?

The question shouldn't be what kind of military can Canada afford, it should be what kind of military Canada needs.

We can afford the things we need. We sure don't need any more bureaucrats. We do need a viable and well-equipped military.

[Freakinoldguy]

Jonny_C Jonny_C:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

The question shouldn't be what kind of Military can Canada afford it should be what kind of Military will Canada pay for?

The question shouldn't be what kind of military can Canada afford, it should be what kind of military Canada needs.

We can afford the things we need. We sure don't need any more bureaucrats. We do need a viable and well-equipped military.

Depends on who you talk to?

Alot of Canadians don't have a fekin clue what the military does so cutting funding to something you don't know or understand is alot more palatable for joe average than cutting education, health care or any of the other myriad of things that concern him.

So now that Afghanistan has wound down I can see us going back to the "military, what military" attitude that was prevelant during my years in uniform.

[Jonny_C]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

So now that Afghanistan has wound down I can see us going back to the "military, what military" attitude that was prevelant during my years in uniform.

Absolutely typical.

$1:

TOMMY by Rudyard Kipling

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

As a sidenote, since Kipling was a very popular British author, this is probably how British soldiers came to be known as "Tommies". That would be my guess anyway.

[martin14]

Jonny_C Jonny_C:

As a sidenote, since Kipling was a very popular British author, this is probably how British soldiers came to be known as "Tommies". That would be my guess anyway.

I think Kipling liked to use it, but it predates him.

It is very old.

[Gunnair]

martin14 martin14:

Jonny_C Jonny_C:

As a sidenote, since Kipling was a very popular British author, this is probably how British soldiers came to be known as "Tommies". That would be my guess anyway.

I think Kipling liked to use it, but it predates him.

It is very old.

Tommy Atkins or Tommie - likely 18th century or earlier

Great book as well by Richard Holmes