[DrCaleb]

rickc rickc:

Its my friday. I am too tired to break it down by paragraph, just a few thoughts: you brought up the wars that the U.S. fought in Bosnia, Iraq, and Syria. Those are perfect examples of the U.S. getting involved in wars that they have no business being in.

I was referring to the first Gulf War. Iraq invades Kuwait, hilarity ensues. Not even going over Gulf War II, spent too much finger power over it already.

rickc rickc:

People had been fighting and dying in what used to be Yugoslavia for years. No one in the U.S. gave a shit until the President got caught up in a scandal where he was getting blow jobs from an intern that was his daughters age.

It played out very different here. Look up 'Medak Pocket'. It's the event that coined the phrase 'ethnic cleansing'. Then came Somalia.

rickc rickc:

Syria? We have ZERO business being in Syria. A President recklessly paints some "red lines" on a map in Syria and then we are supposed to "do something" when these lines get crossed? I call bullshit. There are NO good guys in Syria. ... We have ZERO interests in Syria.

Beyond the humanitarian concerns, the US had interest in Syria because that's where the Arab Spring began; they had chemical weapons; and it is a major fulcrum for Russian power in the region. Leaving those weapons in the hands of a possibly hostile government was not an option, which is why the US backed the supervised destruction of those weapons.

rickc rickc:

You state that the U.S. has alliances in the Ukraine. What are they? Who are they with? The Ukraine is not a member of Nato.

https://www.usubc.org/site/usubc-member ... mbers-list

rickc rickc:

You are telling me that Canada currently has 200 troops in the Ukraine?

No, I pointed you to Government of Canada websites detailing the mission of Canadian troops who are training Ukraine troops to fight Russians on the Eastern Front and in Crimea. I didn't write anything. /pedantic

Canadian Troops are doing the same thing in Latvia as well.

4th Canadian Division trains for success in Latvia

[xerxes]

There were (are?) 200 CAF soldiers in Latvia taking part in joint NATO exercises as of a week or two ago.

The US's interest in Ukraine is less about Ukraine, and more about checking Russia's influence. After Crimea was annexed 7 years ago, the West largely did nothing other than slap heavy sanctions on Russia. They hurt to be fair, but obviously not to the point where Putin has seen the error of his ways. Heavy sanctions like that only work against properly democratic countries like apartheid-era South Africa. Against, dictatorships, not so much when the power brokers in the regime can insulate themselves and their wealth as is the case in Russia.

[DrCaleb]

Sanctions hurt Russians, but make Oligarchs richer. Like the Pandemic did.

[Scape]

[DrCaleb]

Wait, we know everything that Putin and Biden spoke about? When did this start to happen?

[Scape]

The meeting lasted 2 hours. Still waiting on the fallout.

[Scape]

[Scape]

Putin-Biden talks: What next for Ukraine?

$1:

1) Putin backs down
This is perhaps the least likely of outcomes. Mr Putin has marched his troops up the hill and they are not going to return to their barracks without him registering some kind of victory. President Putin has both international and domestic concerns. Perceived weakness will serve him badly.

2) A diplomatic solution

The Russian president has already registered a small diplomatic victory of sorts insofar as this video summit with his US counterpart has happened at all. Russia's ongoing troop build-up around Ukraine has forced the US president to put Moscow's concerns at the top of its foreign policy agenda. It's a potent reminder that for all the talk about Washington's new strategic focus being on China, it cannot ignore its long-standing commitments in Europe and, if Moscow seeks to do so, it can - temporarily at least - re-order the Biden administration's strategic priorities.

3) Military action

Moscow's calculation of the costs of conflict may also be influenced by previous military deployments. While the West currently sees military engagements through the prism of the strategic defeats in Iraq and Afghanistan, Russia may take a very different view. Its operations in Georgia, its seizure of Crimea, its combat in eastern Ukraine - not to mention its involvement in Syria - may all be seen by President Putin as relative victories.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

So, basically they will wag their finger at Russia, and Ukraine is on their own again.

Not at all. Poland has been itching for serious payback with the Russkies for centuries now. If you think they'll sit back and do nothing with the Russkies on their doorstop, you're mistaken. Polish people have LONG memories when it comes to all the times the Russkies invaded or back stabbed them.

Time for some HUGE payback!

-J.

[Scape]

[Scape]

[Scape]

[DrCaleb]

Taking troops off the table is exactly what Putin is counting on. It opens the door for him to 'protect ethnic Russians' that he gave Russian citizenship to, even though they were in Ukraine.

[Scape]

[DrCaleb]

Russia Ukraine: Moscow lists demands for defusing Ukraine tensions

Now we know his strategy.

Putin does not get a veto on NATO policy.