[martin14]

National apportionment of MEP seats
Germany
96
France
74
Italy
73
United Kingdom
73
Spain
54
Poland
51
Romania
33
Netherlands
26
Belgium
22
Czech Republic
22
Greece
22
Hungary
22
Portugal
22
Sweden
20
Austria
19
Bulgaria
18
Finland
13
Denmark
13
Slovakia
13
Ireland
12
Lithuania
12
Latvia
9
Slovenia
8
Cyprus
6
Estonia
6
Luxembourg
6
Malta
6


sorry the paste not very good. But its easy to see that for example
the Visegrad countries ( PL, CZ, SK, HU )
can outvote any German or French proposal easily.

Even a German / French / Italian / British combination could be defeated
by the other members.

Of course, the EU Parliament works more on left-right party lines,
and not very much along national profiles, but you get the idea.

[BartSimpson]

Brenda Brenda:

The Benelux should have stayed just what it was... Fuck France, Italy and West Germany

You know, thats what I am so afraid of. That the EU gets a government with so much influence the countries wont be countries anymore, and that the EU becomes like the USA. There is too much history and too much difference between the countries (financially, historically, culturally) to be one country...

It is inevitable that the EU will become a federal power and that it will reduce the member nations to mere departments of that federal power. Aggrandising power unto themselves is the very nature of government and...well...let me put it this way: who for one moment thinks that the people running the EU are into small government with limited powers? Hell, if any member of the EU bureaucracy said such a thing they'd be accused of being American!

[Public_Domain]

[martin14]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

and...well...let me put it this way: who for one moment thinks that the people running the EU are into small government with limited powers?

Fuck no !!!



the EU needs more and more money to impose itself on the national countries,
so the EU wont be getting leaner or smaller anytime soon.

[Proculation]

Just imagine how big a federal EU government would be if they are based on their current countries government model. They are sure to bankrupt much sooner.

[BeaverFever]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Greece is demonstrating the failures of socialism writ large. The people have enjoyed themselves at the trough of the public treasury for so long that they now think they have a right to it. And, in a classic expression of socialist attitude, they are so convinced of their rights to a lavish lifestyle that they even believe that the rest of Europe should be made to pay for the layabouts in Greece.
What's sad is how this has made confluence with the rest of the Europeans who are now doing exactly that; ponying up money so the Greeks can continue to enjoy the party.

Interesting, because Greece is not even the most 'socialist' state in Europe; that title would belong to Scandinavia, most of which is doing quite fine.

Also, one could argue that America's pork-barrel spending and uncontrolled defense budget, coupled with ridiculous never-ending tax cuts that are absolutely divorced from reality show that people are "so convinced of their rights to a lavish lifestyle" and "think they have a right to the public trough". By demanding this ridiculous spending while at the same time refusing to foot the bill for it, you have a similar phenominon occurring in your home country.

I know I know, you think that the billions of dollars your nation is hemmorhaging daily is all going to welfare cheats, lazy seniors who wont go back to work and ACORN, but that's all a right-wing smokescreen and little more than a drop in the bucket.

[BeaverFever]

martin14 martin14:

Even a German / French / Italian / British combination could be defeated
by the other members.

Of course, the EU Parliament works more on left-right party lines,
and not very much along national profiles, but you get the idea.

Don't a significant portion of EU laws and governance require unanymity though? The EU has often been cited as an example of the "consensus trap" where policies can stall because of the inability of member nations to agree with eachother. If true, this would suggest that European state sovereignty is not facing the risk some would claim.

[MacDonaill]

Income taxes alone represent my highest monthly expense. More than rent, more than groceries, more than car payment, more than insurance, more than personal entertainment and obviously more than savings. Seriously, it's ri-goddamn-diculous, and the madness needs to stop.

The average Ontarian forks over 47% every dollar he makes to the government in various forms of taxation, including sales, income, excises and various surcharges and hidden taxes. Simply unimaginable, but true.

[Brenda]

Only 47%? I would think it would be more, if you include all taxes...

[BeaverFever]

There really hasn't been a first world country yet that's managed to do it on the cheap yet. I guess that's the price of civilization.

[martin14]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

martin14 martin14:

Even a German / French / Italian / British combination could be defeated
by the other members.

Of course, the EU Parliament works more on left-right party lines,
and not very much along national profiles, but you get the idea.

Don't a significant portion of EU laws and governance require unanymity though? The EU has often been cited as an example of the "consensus trap" where policies can stall because of the inability of member nations to agree with eachother. If true, this would suggest that European state sovereignty is not facing the risk some would claim.

Day to day stuff no.

Big ticket items, including new members, new constitution, require unanimity.

It will not become the United States of Europe very quickly, but it will happen.