[DerbyX]

bootlegga bootlegga:

That's not made up?!? Give your head a shake. In his "expose'", he constantly calls it socialized health care, not universal health care. That shows his political bias right there.

After that, his whole argument is basically, "Quebec medicare is Canadian medicare" which is totally not true. That's like me saying all Americans live in slums because I visited the Bronx once. You and I both know that health care falls under provinical jurisdiction and what happens in Quebec doesn't necessarily happen everywhere in Canada. In Edmonton, there are clinics open 7 days a week, many until late at night, each night.

http://www.medicentres.com/Clinic/edmont2.htm

Where is Crowder's mention of that? Oh yeah, it wouldn't fit into his narrow political agenda and is therefore totally ignored. He isn't any better than Moore IMHO.

Triage can't be all that bad, army medical hospitals use it all the time. Critical medical patients get priority care, while those who show up with a cough, a headache or a sore wrist go to the back of the line, which is as it should be. My sister works in a medical centre here in Edmonton and triage has five levels with 1 being life threatening (could die very soon) to 5 being non-essential (like a cold). Makes sense to me.

Besides, going to the emergency room for a sprained wrist? Fuck, take an Advil or two and if it still hurts in couple of hours, then go in.

yep. His BS little expose is about as scientific as a creation science. Recently I had serious accident and have been in and out of the hospital quite a bit going to both ER and urgent care. Every time in ER my wait was less then 2 hours with most being able to see a doctor within 40 minutes. Urgent care was even better. I guess my experience trumps crowders.

Riden, feel free to call up your buddy Harper and have heim campaign on a platform of replacing the Canadian medical system with the US one.

[dino_bobba_renno]

DerbyX DerbyX:

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

I have satellite radio and unfortunately I get stuck listening to CNN and Fox News quite a bit simply because they’re really are no Canadian news networks. I can’ believe the amount of disinformation the networks are spreading not only about Canadian health care but pubic and private health care in general and the biggest problem is that Americans are getting bs info from both the left and right leaning media.

CNN was al in a huff because they were claiming that old people in Canada can be denied health services due to their age, Fox was rambling on about how it takes years to get into see a doctor, HNN was raising the flag of caution because they were claiming that if the system went public it would cost untold trillions and in the end would result in all medical research coming to a halt.

No wonder people in the US are afraid of public health care considering the information that is being feed to them. The funny thing is that most of the arguments being raised against public health care could also be associated and used as arguments against private health care. I know the thing over Michael Jackson was nuts but the level of fear mongering being done on this subject by the US media outlets really takes the cake. It’s down right disgusting.

That was a myth that Americans were spreading about the health care system in the UK as well. They had a minister who responded about that in a bit more angry fashion then Ujjag. Short version was he said it was complete nonsense but then pointed out that the US system lets people who can't afford treatment die all the time regardless of age.

You own a business Dino. Does your business pay government mandated health care premiums for your employees or is any health plan you offer part of their compensation package by choice?

95% of my guys are subcontractor but in Alberta there aren’t any health premiums as of this year. Back when there where premiums I know that the provincial government tried to get employers to tae the premiums off full time employees but because there were so many loop holes to get out taking off employees I don’t believe many employers did.

As for any other form of health such as blue cross it’s completely up to the employer. Most companies will pay half of a supplemental heath plan but again that’s a business design, it’s not mandated or pushed by the provincial government.

I heard Wolf Blitzer the other day taking about private health care vs public and I ‘ll quote what he said “If you don’t have [sic. Private health care] , if you don’t pay for it, you will DIE!!”. He was arguing that under public health care you’ll die earlier. It’s just nuts what they’re saying about public health care, I’m glad what’s his face went in CNN to defend it.

[DerbyX]

Honestly I wish that both sides of the US would piss off and stop referencing our health care system as all it does is cause both sides to dig their heels in because everybody wants to defend their system. The object should be for both countries to improve their systems by learning from each other.

As a coles notes shout out to anybody thinking Canada should adopt the US system I'd think to point out that the US pays over twice as much money per capita for their system. Does any Canadian actually believe their system is at least twice as good as our?

[ASLplease]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Honestly I wish that both sides of the US would piss off and stop referencing our health care system as all it does is cause both sides to dig their heels in because everybody wants to defend their system. The object should be for both countries to improve their systems by learning from each other.

As a coles notes shout out to anybody thinking Canada should adopt the US system I'd think to point out that the US pays over twice as much money per capita for their system. Does any Canadian actually believe their system is at least twice as good as our?

I know of a gentlman in Alberta that was recently diagnosed with an acute case of chrons disease. His treatment is costing $1000 per week and AHC is not covering 100%. ( I'm not sure how much they cover but 50% or 80% comes to mind)

I say that in his case, our medical system SUCKS!

[DerbyX]

ASLplease ASLplease:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Honestly I wish that both sides of the US would piss off and stop referencing our health care system as all it does is cause both sides to dig their heels in because everybody wants to defend their system. The object should be for both countries to improve their systems by learning from each other.

As a coles notes shout out to anybody thinking Canada should adopt the US system I'd think to point out that the US pays over twice as much money per capita for their system. Does any Canadian actually believe their system is at least twice as good as our?

I know of a gentlman in Alberta that was recently diagnosed with an acute case of chrons disease. His treatment is costing $1000 per week and AHC is not covering 100%. ( I'm not sure how much they cover but 50% or 80% comes to mind)

I say that in his case, our medical system SUCKS!

Thats Alberta. Take it up with your provincial government. How much would it cost in the states?

Recently my father had what was termed an asymptomatic heart attack (heart attack presenting without the usual tell-tale symptoms). In the span of less then 48 hours he was admitted to hospital, transferred to a specialist at another hospital and given 2 stents. He said his treatment and care was second to none and it was all covered by OHIP.

For every bad story out there I'd say there are probably dozens of success stories.

I don't have the details of your system but I'd bet his treatment is covered under OHIP.

[bootlegga]

ASLplease ASLplease:

I know of a gentlman in Alberta that was recently diagnosed with an acute case of chrons disease. His treatment is costing $1000 per week and AHC is not covering 100%. ( I'm not sure how much they cover but 50% or 80% comes to mind)

I say that in his case, our medical system SUCKS!

And I can point to dozens of friends and family who have had children and not had to pay one extra cent for delivery, even if some of them were premature and that meant staying in the hospital for several weeks after they were born.

Same goes for two friends who died from cancer. Hugely expensive anti-cancer treatments, long hospital stays, etc. 100% covered by the Alberta government.

I can also point to every visit I've had to the clinic or the hospital. Again, 100% covered. Same goes for the many operations my father had on his hips, heart, and hands.

If you don't like that one thing (or another) is de-listed, bitch to Stelmach and the PCs, who have run the province for the last 38 years.

[sandorski]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Honestly I wish that both sides of the US would piss off and stop referencing our health care system as all it does is cause both sides to dig their heels in because everybody wants to defend their system. The object should be for both countries to improve their systems by learning from each other.

As a coles notes shout out to anybody thinking Canada should adopt the US system I'd think to point out that the US pays over twice as much money per capita for their system. Does any Canadian actually believe their system is at least twice as good as our?

I don't think we can learn from each other. We should both learn from France or Germany who have the best world of both the Canadian/US systems.

[dino_bobba_renno]

ASLplease ASLplease:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Honestly I wish that both sides of the US would piss off and stop referencing our health care system as all it does is cause both sides to dig their heels in because everybody wants to defend their system. The object should be for both countries to improve their systems by learning from each other.

As a coles notes shout out to anybody thinking Canada should adopt the US system I'd think to point out that the US pays over twice as much money per capita for their system. Does any Canadian actually believe their system is at least twice as good as our?

I know of a gentlman in Alberta that was recently diagnosed with an acute case of chrons disease. His treatment is costing $1000 per week and AHC is not covering 100%. ( I'm not sure how much they cover but 50% or 80% comes to mind)

I say that in his case, our medical system SUCKS!

I think you're going to find anomalies but it's important to remember that they are the exception and not the norm.

If it cost him $1000 a week here he better thank his lucky stars he wasn't down in the States as it would probably been 2 to 3 times that amount. Add to that he'd probably have had to fought like hell with his insurance company to cover 50% to 80% of it, in fact he would probably have ended up paying all most all of it if he was diagnosed before signing onto his insurer.

I'm a supporter of privatizing some services and / or offering some parrall services. I don't think the conversation has to be limited to an all or nothing approach as it is so often framed.

Again though I'm just utterly shocked at how the US media is covering this. Do their reporters even care if they get their facts right or not? At the end of the day the US health system is inherently broken and they don't address those problems their going to end up with a have / have not system, that's if it all ready shouldn't be called that.

[bootlegga]

ridenrain ridenrain:

.. and I'm not going to bother with your health care points. It's off topic.

Fine, discuss it here...

ridenrain ridenrain:

It's off topic but I'll address it: Health care isn't working the way it is and we need to do something. I've never said that 100% privatizing is the way to go but it's obvious that rich people are already paying to go where they need to to get the service they need.

So because rich people aren't willing to use it that's a reason to privatize health care?

Guess it's time to also privatize the Canadian Forces, Post Office, public education, and pretty much every service the federal, provincial, municipal governments provide. After all, the wealthy don't use a lot of basic services that the majority of Canadians use.

That is the worst rationale to privatize health care I've EVER heard.

[ridenrain]

.. and that's the usual ad-hominem I'd expect from Derby.

Did I say we should privatize it?

Those wealthy folks are going somewhere and that's valuable money leaving the system because we're not providing them the services they need.

Sandorsky is right on this one.

[bootlegga]

It's hardly ad-hominem. I responded to something you posted. If you don't mean it, then don't say it.

[DerbyX]

ridenrain ridenrain:

.. and that's the usual ad-hominem I'd expect from Derby.

Did I say we should privatize it?

Those wealthy folks are going somewhere and that's valuable money leaving the system because we're not providing them the services they need.

Sandorsky is right on this one.

Thats because you were saying pretty much just that.

Seems I'm in your mind as you trot up and down the forum complaining about muslims, communists, and Obama. Oh my.

You posted garbage about how the system (without evidence or support of that claim beyond some internet comics "expose") isn't working and you post the continued myth that the rich are leaving in droves for the US to get medical care.

Of course you never let facts get in the way of your hackery do you?