[poquas]

maldonsfecht maldonsfecht:

Toni Morrison is hardly impartial...

and in your quoting of this wikipedia article, it states that the historical terms far outweigh any ACCUSED racist associations

So you'll pick and choose what words are important to you while completely ignoring the entire text?

Wilful ignorance is a pathetic excuse.

[maldonsfecht]

In addition, its not the first time for this person.

$1:

Last June, hours before Prime Minister Stephen Harper's historic apology to generations of Canadian aboriginals for residential school abuses, Poilievre went on a talk radio show and made controversial comments about natives.

He said: "We spent $10 billion -- $10 billion -- in annual spending this year alone for budget year 2007-08. Now along with this apology comes another $4 billion in compensation for those who partook in the residential schools over those years. Some of us are starting to ask, are we really getting value for all this money? My view is that we need to engender the values of hard work and independence and self-reliance. That's the solution in the long run -- more money will not solve it."

[/quote]

your stated example does not show any racial terminology in use, it's a financial discussion... it's a poor back-up argument to state precedent with this politician.[/quote]

Then examine the reference in that the man has racial issues.[/quote]

I hardly believe that calling into account spending can be deemed as racist. The only thing that makes this "racist" in the eyes of some is that it happens to involve a minority, whereas if it were a question of the validity in funding billions of dollars in payment to say, white Irish schoolkids who were abused, the man would be above race-based reproach. He'd then just be miserly, or niggardly if you will...

[maldonsfecht]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Do you recall the conservatives on this forum going apeshit when the Liberal MP incorrectly named the first chinese MP?

no I don't... I was not involved in that discussion at all and haven't heard of it.

I'm not saying that rabid political correctness is all on one side of the aisle, I'm just saying that most of the time they are non-issues and this is one I am commenting on

[DerbyX]

You don't have to deem it racist. Others did or at least racially insensitive. He obviously saw the error as he later offered a contrite apology the next day in the House of Commons.

[maldonsfecht]

poquas poquas:

maldonsfecht maldonsfecht:

Toni Morrison is hardly impartial...

and in your quoting of this wikipedia article, it states that the historical terms far outweigh any ACCUSED racist associations

So you'll pick and choose what words are important to you while completely ignoring the entire text?

Wilful ignorance is a pathetic excuse.

not at all. the term only takes on a racist slant if the listener chooses to make that connection given the context of the given statement. As I said previously, the politician here was referring to a policy, not a person and by established definition (of an unbiased nature) his statement was valid.

[DerbyX]

maldonsfecht maldonsfecht:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Do you recall the conservatives on this forum going apeshit when the Liberal MP incorrectly named the first chinese MP?

no I don't... I was not involved in that discussion at all and haven't heard of it.

I'm not saying that rabid political correctness is all on one side of the aisle, I'm just saying that most of the time they are non-issues and this is one I am commenting on

Sure, except that every time it seems to involve the conservatives its a non-issue and the other parties its "proof". Hell even the Bernier losing top secret documents was considered a non-issue by some.

[ridenrain]

It's not a common one but then I wonder if these French MP's get the translations right.
Stephan Taylor did some digging on Chantal Hebert, a well known Liberal media punbit who is also French Canadian and has also used the phrase on a number of occasions.

$1:

Here are some recent uses of the term by journalists including Chantal Hebert.

$1:

“The nasty legal squabble over who owns the cash-strapped Phoenix Coyotes and whether they can relocate to Hamilton is hardly the first such tar baby the NHL has dealt with, and it won’t be the last.” (John Mackinnon, Edmonton Journal, May 18, 2009).

$1:

“It’s a Tory/Liberal tar baby and I’ve lost faith that they can do anything but keep changing the minister and pretend everything’s under control.” (Ralph Surette, Halifax Chronicle Herald, February 14, 2009).

$1:

“At this stage, the McTeague bill looks more like a Liberal tar baby than a party brainchild.” (Chantal Hebert, The Toronto Star, March 12, 2008).

$1:

“Along the way, Parti Québécois leader Pauline Marois has got herself in trouble with the usual suspects as she fumbles with the language tar baby and prepares for one of those gawdawful national council meetings the PQ caribous use to exasperate and humiliate the unfortunate chief of the moment.” (Norman Webster, Montreal Gazette, February 17, 2008).

$1:

“Marois’s effort to shake off the referendum tar baby is good news…” (Editorial, Cynical PQ bid to rebrand party, The Toronto Star, Friday, March 7, 2008).

$1:

“Same-sex marriage has generally been treated like a political tar baby over the past few years, with most parties reluctant to whip up highly sensitive arguments touching on religion and deeply rooted social values.” (Susan Delacourt, Martin could exploit gay-marriage gift, The Hamilton Spectator, Friday, December 10, 2004).

$1:

“Nobody is saying you toss over your U.S. relations. Of course you don’t. But it doesn’t mean to say you have to become slavishly connected like some kind of tar baby with them.” (Lloyd Axworthy, Canada’s new leader to improve U.S. ties, Detroit Free Press, Thursday, December 11, 2003).

Is she a racist too?

[maldonsfecht]

DerbyX DerbyX:

You don't have to deem it racist. Others did or at least racially insensitive. He obviously saw the error as he later offered a contrite apology the next day in the House of Commons.

but again, that's not to say that it was in fact a racist statement. If others decide something based on emotion and opinion rather that unbiased by-the-book defining of something coming from the standpoint of the speaker than is he not above blame?

If, in a public forum, I state that I prefer a hamburger to a taco, does that give the Hispanic population free rein to call me a racist? No. It doesn't.

The political climate may call for apologising for offences both real and imagined, but it does not make the speaker a racist or insensitive when the words taken in context to his point are established as meaning something completely different from what one person or group of people attaches to it.

It's the same when people listen to a great song and pull completely different things from it. Some love the song others not so much, but it doesn't change the intent of the song to the singer.

[DerbyX]

$1:

Just because other people have said it, doesn't make it right, and Poilievre's past comments made yesterday's even more egregious, Jennings said.

"It was very hurtful. When I heard it I felt slightly sick to my stomach. Then I give myself a mental shake and say 'Marlene you shouldn't feel that way, they should feel that way for using that language in this day and age.'"

"The PMO should be calling on anybody, especially those in politics, to purge the word from their vocabulary. They should be setting the standards. What the PMO is saying is that they're prepared to go to the lowest common denominator.

You would not have forgiven a Liberal MP had they said it. You certainly considered it a slight against all Chinese immigrants over the MP gaff.

[poquas]

[quote="ridenrain"]It's not a common one but then I wonder if these French MP's get the translations right.

Stephan Taylor did some digging on Chantal Hebert, a well known Liberal media punbit who is also French Canadian and has also used the phrase on a number of occasions.
[quote]

Trust you to pull out what has become the typical Reform party response.... Don't apologise, attack the other guy.

She's a Liberal pundit (not punbit). As I’ve expressed in the past. Fix our party first. Let the Liberals deal with their own problems.

[DerbyX]

maldonsfecht maldonsfecht:

DerbyX DerbyX:

You don't have to deem it racist. Others did or at least racially insensitive. He obviously saw the error as he later offered a contrite apology the next day in the House of Commons.

but again, that's not to say that it was in fact a racist statement. If others decide something based on emotion and opinion rather that unbiased by-the-book defining of something coming from the standpoint of the speaker than is he not above blame?

If, in a public forum, I state that I prefer a hamburger to a taco, does that give the Hispanic population free rein to call me a racist? No. It doesn't.

The political climate may call for apologising for offences both real and imagined, but it does not make the speaker a racist or insensitive when the words taken in context to his point are established as meaning something completely different from what one person or group of people attaches to it.

It's the same when people listen to a great song and pull completely different things from it. Some love the song others not so much, but it doesn't change the intent of the song to the singer.

If I say something like "Thats retarded" referring to some action I can certainly expect some people to get offended and were I a public official I'd probably be expected to phrase things differently.

[poquas]

maldonsfecht maldonsfecht:

but again, that's not to say that it was in fact a racist statement. If others decide something based on emotion and opinion rather that unbiased by-the-book defining of something coming from the standpoint of the speaker than is he not above blame?

So you would advocate the use of the term nigger even if it was not used in a racist manner?

[maldonsfecht]

poquas poquas:

ridenrain ridenrain:

It's not a common one but then I wonder if these French MP's get the translations right.

Stephan Taylor did some digging on Chantal Hebert, a well known Liberal media punbit who is also French Canadian and has also used the phrase on a number of occasions.

$1:

Trust you to pull out what has become the typical Reform party response.... Don't apologise, attack the other guy.

She's a Liberal pundit (not punbit). As I’ve expressed in the past. Fix our party first. Let the Liberals deal with their own problems.

It wasn't an attack on the other guy, it was establishing precedent within politics of the use of a contextually inert term that has a meaning that is being skewed by an overly-sensitive ear.

[DerbyX]

Lets certainly not forget the "non-issue" made of the unvalidated accusation of a Liberal van parking in handicapped spaces.

You might also say what goes around comes around.

[maldonsfecht]

poquas poquas:

maldonsfecht maldonsfecht:

but again, that's not to say that it was in fact a racist statement. If others decide something based on emotion and opinion rather that unbiased by-the-book defining of something coming from the standpoint of the speaker than is he not above blame?

So you would advocate the use of the term nigger even if it was not used in a racist manner?

that's apples and oranges and no I do not and would not condone the use of the word "nigger."

What I would condemn however, is the branding of someone a racist over the use of the term niggardly which although may share a syllable with the other word, has a completely different English origin and an entirely different meaning altogether.