[Newsbot]

Title: Toronto police officer charged in fatal streetcar shooting
Category: Law & Order
Posted By: commanderkai
Date: 2013-08-19 07:22:51
Canadian

[Jabberwalker]

re it is. He should be charged with something, that's for sure. Murder is the extreme, though.

[DrCaleb]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

re it is. He should be charged with something, that's for sure. Murder is the extreme, though.

If a person's actions caused someone to die, then Murder is appropriate.

[BeaverFever]

I expect this will be downgraded to Manslaughter at some point.

[llama66]

9 Shots was rather excessive. I too think it'll be a reduced to Manslaughter at some point. I hope this leads to the front line guys getting Tasers and better training.

[DrCaleb]

llama66 llama66:

9 Shots was rather excessive. I too think it'll be a reduced to Manslaughter at some point. I hope this leads to the front line guys getting Tasers and better training.

Disagree. One or two shots, I could see that if someone died, the shooter was not commiting murder. But 9 shots, then a taser? No, not an accident.

[llama66]

What are you disagreeing? that 9 shots was excessive? that the front line cops need non-leathal equipment and training? or the charge will be reduced to Manslaughter at some point?

[DrCaleb]

llama66 llama66:

or the charge will be reduced to Manslaughter at some point?

^ That.

I disagree that this was ever Manslaughter. The kid on the bus died as a direct result of someone's actions, and it was that person's intentions that the kid on the bus should die. It wasn't an accident or crime of passion, as a charge of Manslaughter would imply.

Criminal Code of Canada Criminal Code of Canada:

232. (1) Culpable homicide that otherwise would be murder may be reduced to manslaughter if the person who committed it did so in the heat of passion caused by sudden provocation.

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I expect this will be downgraded to Manslaughter at some point.

Manslaughter would be arguable if only the first three shots had been fired. There's no defensible reason for the six shots in the coup de grace and those shots make the case for second degree murder.

[shockedcanadian]

I am disenchanted with the system, fighting it myself for a number of years and I do not expect a successful conviction, this time though the world is watching.

What argument can he make? If this was based on "training guidelines" then how can he explain that the other 22 cops around him didn't feel the need to do what he did? Is he just that good a student and the other cops incompetent?

This was going to be difficult for the system to ignore, there was too much pressure and evidence that supported a charge being laid. Now if they can apply the same accountability to the undercover apparatus Canada might be a country viewed as one that adheres by the Rule of Law.

[llama66]

it comes down to his defence, and whether he can create a reasonable doubt.

[Newsbot]

Title: Toronto police officer charged with second degree murder in streetcar shooting death of Sammy Yatim | National Post
Category: Business
Posted By: shockedcanadian
Date: 2013-08-19 10:10:54
Canadian

[martin14]

Murder 2 will never stick, hope they have a better plan.

[BartSimpson]

llama66 llama66:

it comes down to his defence, and whether he can create a reasonable doubt.

"Reasonable doubt" is going to center on what threat the suspect posed to the cop. And at the moment of the gunfire there was exactly NO threat to the cop or to anyone else.

Once again, I hold this shoot to the same standard that this very cop would hold to a Canadian citizen who would shoot someone in the same circumstance.

Seriously, if that was a security guard instead of a cop we wouldn't be having any debate at all over this. We'd look at the video and see an unjustified shoot and we'd want the shooter prosecuted. Period.

Cops shouldn't get a pass on murdering people just because they have a shiny badge on their chest. In this case it's really heartening to see that Toronto isn't going to let this slide.

[shockedcanadian]

llama66 llama66:

it comes down to his defence, and whether he can create a reasonable doubt.

It comes down to whether Canada wants to put on a face of democracy to the world, or they want to present their Eastern Bloc Police state stance. I am actually very surprised he was charged at all based on the history of the SIU, this in itself is a scary thought when even with such a video there is doubt about honest and fair due process, we simply don't see it often in this country.

I am sorry but I am not very flexible in this case. The video is all that one needs and then some. One officer firing 9 shots, slow and methodical even after the kid was dropped, 22 other cops with far less of a concern about any danger, the order to bring in a taser while one cop decides to take the law into his own hands before the taser could be used.

The Crown has more than enough evidence to prove a strong case if they are really committed to justice. I don't know what charge exactly is suitable here, but certainly this guy should not be walking the street as an officer again in my opinion.