[bootlegga]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Maybe you should wait for the trial? That's when ACTUAL evidence outside of iPhone video will be presented.

Rushing to judge with snippets of evidence and then lynching by media is a good reason we have a legal system not run by the Toronto Star and CBC.

I'm as interested as anybody in seeing the evidence. As in at court and not from twitter.

I agree with you, but how much are you willing to bet that Forcillo (or the TPD) goes out and hires the very same slick defence lawyer they (and all cops) bemoan for letting crooks off? And that slick lawyer type will twist and pervert the video into showing why that stupid kid deserved nine shots AND a tasering?

As much disdain as I have for the media in this country, I don't trust the justice system all that much either.

When cops are on trial for these types of crimes, they almost always get off with a slap on the wrist due to the thin blue wall, a technicality, character assassination or some twisting of prosecution's evidence.

Call me a cynic, but Forcillo will probably walk on this, or get a reduced charge that merely gets him kicked off the force with next to no jail time.

[Benn]

[quote="Unsound]
You're absolutely right of course, but even if we don't judge the officer before the trial, there will be speculation about what exactly happened. And, of course, the main thing most of us wonder about it "why did he start shooting when no one else did?" and "what was the reason for the last 6 shots and the taser?".

I'm willing to wait for a trial for the facts to come out, but in the meantime i really do get stuck on those two questions. Especially the last 6 shots. i just can't imagine a scenario where that's justified.[/quote]


I can think of some but why start the debate on the number of possibilities. Better to find out what the reason given in court (if it gets to a trial) is and debate the merits of that.

[Benn]

shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:

Everyone, police or civilian, should be treated this way.[/quote]


Let me tell you, that this is not the case. The undercover security apparatus from the police to CSIS, accuse, try and convict many citizens and give them a life sentence, and they hear nary a peep from their accusers...[/quote]

Hey bud, you dropped this. Thought you might want it back.




BTW I'm in Law Enforcement and used to work for CSIS so I'm watching you...BOO!

Sleep well!

[shockedcanadian]

[/quote]

Hey bud, you dropped this. Thought you might want it back.




BTW I'm in Law Enforcement and used to work for CSIS so I'm watching you...BOO!

Sleep well![/quote]

Hey, the old "tinfoil hat" accusation. What's next to come from you? "You are either with us or you are with the (insert blank with current flavour of the month) _________"

I'm not sure you are creative enough to work for CSIS.

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

llama66 llama66:

Fair enough, but we also allow for everyone to defend themselves.

No, you don't and that's my measure of what was wrong with this shooting.

#1. Had an average Canadian citizen conducted that shooting they'd be in jail. Period. For using a gun. For having a gun. For defending themselves instead of retreating from the situation and calling the police. In any case, you most certainly do NOT allow for everyone to defend themselves.

#2. Had that been an average Canadian in the exact same situation as the cop you'd be asking why he didn't just move back and leave the guy with the knife alone since he was not an immediate threat? Likewise, that's my problem with the cop and it would appear that the people who reviewed the shoot agree with this.

#3. Since when does 'everyone' in Canada have a right to carry a Taser and a Glock to defend themselves? Again making the point that you do not allow 'everyone' to defend themselves, just special people who are more equal than others.

You are able to defend yourself without a gun or taser. I know it's likely a shock for you being a gun-loving American, but that is the case.

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

You are able to defend yourself without a gun or taser.

True, but it's a bitch to pull off if your attacker has a gun or a Taser.

[DrCaleb]

I thought this was a pretty good write up:

$1:

It wasn’t the video that convinced me that Const. James Forcillo of the Toronto Police Service would eventually be arrested and charged, as he was on Monday, in the death of 18-year-old Sammy Yatim. It was the silence, and off-the-record murmurings, of his fellow officers.

. . .

In charging Const. Forcillo with second-degree murder, Ontario’s independent police review agency, the Special Investigations Unit, has set the bar high. The Crown must now prove that Const. Forcillo had the intention of killing Mr. Yatim and that he did not have any reasonable grounds to fear for his own life. And it’s important to note that he doesn’t need to establish that shooting Mr. Yatim was necessary, just that in the heat of the moment, he reasonably believed it was necessary. Proving that he didn’t have reasonable grounds to believe that, let alone proving it beyond a reasonable doubt, will prove a huge challenge.

There’s every likelihood, based on the above, that Const. Forcillo will fight these charges, win and conceivably return to duty. Mr. Yatim’s family, and those outraged on their behalf, need to be prepared for that.


. . .This is virtually unprecedented. Cops rush to defend other cops even against the indefensible. But when it concerns Const. Forcillo, the most commonly expressed emotion isn’t outrage or confidence, it’s heartbreak.

Const. Forcillo may yet be found not guilty in a court of law. The odds are on his side there. But this incident has deeply shaken his colleagues across the country. The thin blue line may not have cracked, but it’s flexed. And that’s hard to ignore.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... mmy-yatim/

[Unsound]

[quote="Benn"


I can think of some but why start the debate on the number of possibilities. [/quote]

Because that's what people do. It's a big important case and people will talk about it. Since as far as I can tell the main talking points could be generalized discussion of police use of force, or just the specifics of this particular case. Personally I'd rather talk about what makes this case different from the majority of police shootings... that is the, apparently, inexplicable 6 shots.

[martin14]

Remember, George Zimmerman was charged with murder, when even manslaughter was a stretch.

An obvious overcharge, and he rightfully walked.


Looks like a good way to appease the crowd now, and worry about acquittal later.

[martin14]

Unsound Unsound:

Because that's what people do. It's a big important case and people will talk about it. Since as far as I can tell the main talking points could be generalized discussion of police use of force, or just the specifics of this particular case. Personally I'd rather talk about what makes this case different from the majority of police shootings... that is the, apparently, inexplicable 6 shots.

I agree, I'm more or less ok with the first 3. The 6 after.....

[shockedcanadian]

I said from day one that this cop will not only not go to prison, but he will continue to work, running around the streets with a gun on him.

The conflict of interest and concern for democracy should be obvious here. They obviously are going to overcharge knowing that now he will walk since they won't be able to prove their case to the degree they are pretending to seek. Smoke and mirrors for all to witness, "see, we DO charge cops, but justice ran it's course, we had no control over that...".

It's disgusting and quite frankly more people should be concerned when this guy gets off. It will be further proof that as long as an officer has "logged in" for the day, he might as well be an assassin with no public recourse. Rule of Law, honesty and transparency always takes the back seat to optics and personal benefit when the Security Apparatus is concerned.

[Jabberwalker]

So, what is the guy that Tasered the corpse charged with? I guess that it won't be murder 'cause he was already dead.

[shockedcanadian]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

So, what is the guy that Tasered the corpse charged with? I guess that it won't be murder 'cause he was already dead.

I don't know what he was charged with, but he should be forced to take Biology 101 or "common sense" studies...again, how does someone like this become an officer? Is that standard training? Taser a guy who is downed from 9 bullets, bleeding and not moving?

[martin14]

He's been granted bail.

Wonder if now he is still getting paid ?

[shockedcanadian]

martin14 martin14:

He's been granted bail.

Wonder if now he is still getting paid ?

Of course he is, probably received his yearly raise.