[bootlegga]

Yogi Yogi:

The 'same' house, an hour out of 'the city' can be had, today for under $100,000. Living in the city requires at least, a half hr stressful, and sometimes dangerous drive 'to the office' as opposed to a 1 hr leisurely drive. Same place where a kid is safe to go play outside by themselves. The neighbors know everyone and help each other out...etc. Some sacrifice.

I was generalizing inasmuchas 'most' parents, but not all, focus on their 'wants' and wants 'me' to help pay for their 'needs', but otherwise, "stay the hell outta my biz"!

That's true (about the housing costs), but during the winter, I'd consider a drive from outside the Edmonton area into it much more dangerous than one through Edmonton. I've lost count of the number of accidents and cars in the ditch I've seen while driving on Hwy 2, 16X and 21 during the winter here.

While life in the country may suit you, it doesn't suit everyone (I find Edmonton boring and I'd kill myself if I lived in a rural area), nor does it provide employment opportunities for everyone. My job only exists in an organization's head office - and most companies don't have their corporate HQ in rural Alberta, it's usually in either Edmonton or Calgary.

[OnTheIce]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Yogi Yogi:

The 'same' house, an hour out of 'the city' can be had, today for under $100,000. Living in the city requires at least, a half hr stressful, and sometimes dangerous drive 'to the office' as opposed to a 1 hr leisurely drive. Same place where a kid is safe to go play outside by themselves. The neighbors know everyone and help each other out...etc. Some sacrifice.

I was generalizing inasmuchas 'most' parents, but not all, focus on their 'wants' and wants 'me' to help pay for their 'needs', but otherwise, "stay the hell outta my biz"!

That's true (about the housing costs), but during the winter, I'd consider a drive from outside the Edmonton area into it much more dangerous than one through Edmonton. I've lost count of the number of accidents and cars in the ditch I've seen while driving on Hwy 2, 16X and 21 during the winter here.

While life in the country may suit you, it doesn't suit everyone (I find Edmonton boring and I'd kill myself if I lived in a rural area), nor does it provide employment opportunities for everyone. My job only exists in an organization's head office - and most companies don't have their corporate HQ in rural Alberta, it's usually in either Edmonton or Calgary.

But you should have PLANNED for a career that would have allowed you to work in rural areas. Then you could have had a nice pleasurable drive into work every day.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

Yep, the logic of how you can live further away from the same office but get there sooner escapes me. must involve wormholes somehow.

Well, he either skirts Edmonton (using Hwy 21 and maybe 37), or he takes the Yellowhead before it fills with traffic. The key is that he leaves for work shortly after the sunrises.

If his job started at 9am, he'd probably have to leave around 8am (if he went through Edmonton) to get there on time.

My commute from the northern edge of the city to downtown is about 25 minutes, but if I lived in one of the suburbs (like St. Albert, Spruce Grove or Sherwood Park), it would be much longer (at least an hour) because my job starts at 8:30 (like most people in Edmonton), and I have to drop off both my wife and daughter (because we are a one car family).

Still, it could be worse, we could have traffic like Calgary (even the freeeways are parking lots during rush hour).

[bootlegga]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

bootlegga bootlegga:

That's true (about the housing costs), but during the winter, I'd consider a drive from outside the Edmonton area into it much more dangerous than one through Edmonton. I've lost count of the number of accidents and cars in the ditch I've seen while driving on Hwy 2, 16X and 21 during the winter here.

While life in the country may suit you, it doesn't suit everyone (I find Edmonton boring and I'd kill myself if I lived in a rural area), nor does it provide employment opportunities for everyone. My job only exists in an organization's head office - and most companies don't have their corporate HQ in rural Alberta, it's usually in either Edmonton or Calgary.

But you should have PLANNED for a career that would have allowed you to work in rural areas. Then you could have had a nice pleasurable drive into work every day.

Yeah, you got me there. I should have bucked the trend (80% of humanity now lives in cities whereas 100 yers ago it was 80% lived in rural areas).

[andyt]

I reacted to that on the balancing the budget thread, where the suggestion was made that people grow their own vegetables and chop their own firewood. It really seems a lot of conservatives live in some hazy frontier past. Guess that's who this tax break the cons are offering is aimed at too - mom stays home and bakes apple pies while dad drives the Oldsmobile 20 blocks to work.

[Yogi]

You guys refuse to understand the concept of 'plan & sacrifice'. Boots, you seem to be in a very vast minority, kudos to you and your wife. I live in a rural area now, because that is where I want to be. That's called 'planning'!
The 'sacrifice' part came in to play while I was paying for, and raising my kids, in the city. I was no different than you or any other family, I wanted to own my own home. The difference, and take the economy of the times into account, was that rather than 'go straight for the nice, new house with the big yard and garage at 3 x the price, I started with a nice, albeit older, mobile home in a park. ( Westview). The kids each had their own bedroom, and a fenced yard to play in. And I wasn't worried about them when they took off for a bike ride. We kept the place well maintained, redecorated, lived within our means for a few years, and sold. That money, along with what we had managed to save made the downpayment on a large home with 3 lots and a 2 1/2 car garage in Morinville. The payments (personal loan, not conventional mortgage) were 3 bucks more than we were paying on the mobile & lot rent. I continued to 'trade up' to the point that When I found my current home, I was able to pay in full and purchase all the materials that I needed to do a complete renovation/restoration that I wanted. I never expected, nor got any financial help from anyone along the way. As it should be!

[andyt]

You absolutely have a point, Yogi. You're just overstating it.

[OnTheIce]

Yogi Yogi:

You guys refuse to understand the concept of 'plan & sacrifice'. Boots, you seem to be in a very vast minority, kudos to you and your wife. I live in a rural area now, because that is where I want to be. That's called 'planning'!
The 'sacrifice' part came in to play while I was paying for, and raising my kids, in the city. I was no different than you or any other family, I wanted to own my own home. The difference, and take the economy of the times into account, was that rather than 'go straight for the nice, new house with the big yard and garage at 3 x the price, I started with a nice, albeit older, mobile home in a park. ( Westview). The kids each had their own bedroom, and a fenced yard to play in. And I wasn't worried about them when they took off for a bike ride. We kept the place well maintained, redecorated, lived within our means for a few years, and sold. That money, along with what we had managed to save made the downpayment on a large home with 3 lots and a 2 1/2 car garage in Morinville. The payments (personal loan, not conventional mortgage) were 3 bucks more than we were paying on the mobile & lot rent. I continued to 'trade up' to the point that When I found my current home, I was able to pay in full and purchase all the materials that I needed to do a complete renovation/restoration that I wanted. I never expected, nor got any financial help from anyone along the way. As it should be!

You make it out like the entire younger generation has never stuggled, never planned and never sacrificed anything & expect everything. You're wrong.

Sure, their are some like this, but then again, there are the same people in your generation too.

[andyt]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

You make it out like the entire younger generation has never stuggled, never planned and never sacrificed anything & expect everything. You're wrong.

Sure, their are some like this, but then again, there are the same people in your generation too.

I think it has become more endemic with each generation. The depression/ww II folks knew how to scrimp and save, even after they'd made it. But they made things too easy for their boomer kids, who in turn really coddled their precious little ones. And all of society fosters it. I mean if you stop spending the terrorists will have won or we'll have another recession. Families in Vancouver are definitely struggling to afford a house, but too many use credit to still buy themselves and their kids all the toys, 'cause we all know life ain't worth living without the latest pod thingy. So as I say, I think Yogi has a point, but he's overstating it.

I think it part it's also that we are less hopeful as a society now. When I was growing up, everything was going to always get better and better. Each generation was going to be richer than the one before, the future looked bright. Well we are richer on average, but that means that the 20% at the top are better off, while the rest are either treading water or sinking. So people figure they might as well try to get all they can now, before it's gone.

[Yogi]

You really think I'm 'overstating' andy? Have you been out to a lake in the last few years? See all those expensive 'speed boats' with the wake towers, and pulling tubers and skieres. Are the 'majority' of them being piloted by 'old farts' who would likeley be the ones to actually afford to own them? Take a walk around the campground in the evening and have a look at 'most' of the 'newer RV' tenants. Are the majority '50 something Old Farts' who could likely afford to own these? How about most of the fancy new, expensive quads, dirtbikes or snow machines zipping around are being driven by '50 something Old Farts'? Take a walk around your neighborhood...etc. etc.

The 'majority' of them have kids, and they really, really NEED that daycare subsidy!

[OnTheIce]

Yogi Yogi:

You really think I'm 'overstating' andy? Have you been out to a lake in the last few years? See all those expensive 'speed boats' with the wake towers, and pulling tubers and skieres. Are the 'majority' of them being piloted by 'old farts' who would likeley be the ones to actually afford to own them? Take a walk around the campground in the evening and have a look at 'most' of the 'newer RV' tenants. Are the majority '50 something Old Farts' who could likely afford to own these? How about most of the fancy new, expensive quads, dirtbikes or snow machines zipping around are being driven by '50 something Old Farts'? Take a walk around your neighborhood...etc. etc.

The 'majority' of them have kids, and they really, really NEED that daycare subsidy!

Yep, cause that extra $100 a month is really pushing these families to go and buy massive homes and boats.

I'm sure us parents just would DIE without that extra $100 a month, just like you would have died without your baby bonus/beer money.

[Yogi]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Yogi Yogi:

You really think I'm 'overstating' andy? Have you been out to a lake in the last few years? See all those expensive 'speed boats' with the wake towers, and pulling tubers and skieres. Are the 'majority' of them being piloted by 'old farts' who would likeley be the ones to actually afford to own them? Take a walk around the campground in the evening and have a look at 'most' of the 'newer RV' tenants. Are the majority '50 something Old Farts' who could likely afford to own these? How about most of the fancy new, expensive quads, dirtbikes or snow machines zipping around are being driven by '50 something Old Farts'? Take a walk around your neighborhood...etc. etc.

The 'majority' of them have kids, and they really, really NEED that daycare subsidy!

Yep, cause that extra $100 a month is really pushing these families to go and buy massive homes and boats.

I'm sure us parents just would DIE without that extra $100 a month, just like you would have died without your baby bonus/beer money.

Current child care subsidy rates for eligible families living in all Alberta regions, except the Northeast Alberta CFSA region.
Subsidy Rates (up to a maximum of): Infant (1-18 mos)
Toddler (19 mos) to kindergarten
Grades 1 thru 6
Day Care/Out-of-School Care
$628
$546
$310
Family Day Home and Group Family Child Care
$520
$437
$310
Extended Hours
$100
Stay-at-Home Parent
$1,200 (max. per year)
N/A
Kin Child Care Funding
$400
$200
Subsidy Rates - as of September 1, 2008 for Northeast Child and Family Services Subsidy Rates (up to a maximum of): Infant (1-18 mos)
Toddler (19 mos) to kindergarten
Grades 1 thru 6
Day Care/Out-of-School Care
$714
$621
$355
Family Day Home and Group Family Child Care
$590
$497
$355
Extended Hours
$100
Stay-at-Home Parent
$1,200 (max. per year)
N/A
Kin Child Care Funding
$458
$229

[Brenda]

Damn, I would have gotten $1200 subsidy if I lived in f*cking Alberta, because I am a stay at home mom???

[OnTheIce]

Yogi Yogi:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Yogi Yogi:

You really think I'm 'overstating' andy? Have you been out to a lake in the last few years? See all those expensive 'speed boats' with the wake towers, and pulling tubers and skieres. Are the 'majority' of them being piloted by 'old farts' who would likeley be the ones to actually afford to own them? Take a walk around the campground in the evening and have a look at 'most' of the 'newer RV' tenants. Are the majority '50 something Old Farts' who could likely afford to own these? How about most of the fancy new, expensive quads, dirtbikes or snow machines zipping around are being driven by '50 something Old Farts'? Take a walk around your neighborhood...etc. etc.

The 'majority' of them have kids, and they really, really NEED that daycare subsidy!

Yep, cause that extra $100 a month is really pushing these families to go and buy massive homes and boats.

I'm sure us parents just would DIE without that extra $100 a month, just like you would have died without your baby bonus/beer money.

Current child care subsidy rates for eligible families living in all Alberta regions, except the Northeast Alberta CFSA region.
Subsidy Rates (up to a maximum of): Infant (1-18 mos)
Toddler (19 mos) to kindergarten
Grades 1 thru 6
Day Care/Out-of-School Care
$628
$546
$310
Family Day Home and Group Family Child Care
$520
$437
$310
Extended Hours
$100
Stay-at-Home Parent
$1,200 (max. per year)
N/A
Kin Child Care Funding
$400
$200
Subsidy Rates - as of September 1, 2008 for Northeast Child and Family Services Subsidy Rates (up to a maximum of): Infant (1-18 mos)
Toddler (19 mos) to kindergarten
Grades 1 thru 6
Day Care/Out-of-School Care
$714
$621
$355
Family Day Home and Group Family Child Care
$590
$497
$355
Extended Hours
$100
Stay-at-Home Parent
$1,200 (max. per year)
N/A
Kin Child Care Funding
$458
$229

What's the incomes required above to get such benefits?

[Yogi]

^^ It's on a sliding scale, based on income. I tried to use their calculator to come up with 'something' that would be fair to this discussion, but wasn't able to. I'm doing a bit of checking around with some of the 'young families' that I know are collecting this subsidy to try to get an accurate idea.
But just looking at the scale, you can, I'm sure, get a better understanding of why this situation has gotten my knickers in a knot!