[Lemmy]

RUEZ RUEZ:

So none of these billion dollar companies has offered any solution to file sharing?

Why do we need a solution to file sharing? File sharing works well. The consumers are happier than pigs in shit. So are the artists. It's all good, except for the music companies. And, like I said, fuck them. There were some good horse-drawn carriage manufacturers that went tits-up when the automobile was invented. Tough shit. That's progress.

The US government owes somewhere in the neighbourhood of $2T to China. They should call up the Chinese and say "Stop the manufacturing of pirated materials in your country or you can take that IOU and jam it in your ass". That's the solution to the piracy problem.

[RUEZ]

Lemmy Lemmy:

RUEZ RUEZ:

So none of these billion dollar companies has offered any solution to file sharing?

Why do we need a solution to file sharing? File sharing works well. The consumers are happier than pigs in shit. So are the artists. It's all good, except for the music companies. And, like I said, fuck them. There were some good horse-drawn carriage manufacturers that went tits-up when the automobile was invented. Tough shit. That's progress.

The US government owes somewhere in the neighbourhood of $2T to China. They should call up the Chinese and say "Stop the manufacturing of pirated materials in your country or you can take that IOU and jam it in your ass". That's the solution to the piracy problem.

You think most artists are happy not getting paid for their product? I'm sure a lot would disagree. We can debate the morality of file sharing all night long however my question remains. If all these companies claim they are against piracy but don't like this legislation I wonder what they are contributing to stop it?

[Lemmy]

RUEZ RUEZ:

You think most artists are happy not getting paid for their product?

They are getting paid for their product, which is music. The records/CDs were the record companies' product, not the musicians'. In those days, the music business was a plantation and the artists were the slaves. Now, musicians are making more money than ever. They're just making their money differently. They make it on the live shows and merchandise. As music has become freely shared through file transfers, it's greatly increased bands' exposure and, hence, the demand for their music. The price of concert tickets has exploded, more than making up for the lost, meager royalties they used to get from the plantation owners.

RUEZ RUEZ:

I'm sure a lot would disagree.

Only those who don't understand the music industry...oh, and the record companies.

RUEZ RUEZ:

We can debate the morality of file sharing all night long however my question remains. If all these companies claim they are against piracy but don't like this legislation I wonder what they are contributing to stop it?

They're handcuffed, aren't they, unless sanctions against the Chinese are enacted. Maybe all these companies against piracy should switch their lobby efforts away from fighting college kids swapping Phish mp3s and onto pressuring China to stop the manufacture of pirated materials.

[RUEZ]

Lemmy Lemmy:

RUEZ RUEZ:

I'm sure a lot would disagree.

Only those who don't understand the music industry...oh, and the record companies.

I did a quick search to see and google came back with a lot of musicians and bands that are against illegal downloading. Whether they make money through record sales, or concerts, or merchandise, it's still up to them to decide who should get their product and for how much. It's not up to Joe internet user to justify his downloading by saying musicians make enough money at concerts. They reserve the right to decide that.

[Lemmy]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Whether they make money through record sales, or concerts, or merchandise, it's still up to them to decide who should get their product and for how much.

But they DO get to decide who gets their product. CDs weren't their product. CDs where the record companies' product. Let me ask you a question. Let's say I bought a vinyl copy of Pink Floyd's "The Wall" back in 1980. Then I bought it on cassette in 1985, on CD in 2000. Suppose I lost the CD. Am I entitled to a free replacement disc?

RUEZ RUEZ:

It's not up to Joe internet user to justify his downloading by saying musicians make enough money at concerts. They reserve the right to decide that.

Nope, in the business world, the customer is always right. That's the free market.

[RUEZ]

Lemmy Lemmy:

RUEZ RUEZ:

It's not up to Joe internet user to justify his downloading by saying musicians make enough money at concerts. They reserve the right to decide that.

Nope, in the business world, the customer is always right. That's the free market.

Are you considered a customer when you steal something?

[Lemmy]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Are you considered a customer when you steal something?

Of course not. We'll come back to that. Try my question, that I added as an edit to my last post.

[Smacle]

Actually the artist makes a deal with the record lable, not with you. You buy that album from the record company. Technically the artist didn't make a deal with you at all. You aren't entitled to the art, you are entitled to a physical copy of it.

[Lemmy]

Smacle Smacle:

Actually the artist makes a deal with the record lable, not with you. You buy that album from the record company. Technically the artist didn't make a deal with you at all. You aren't entitled to the art, you are entitled to a physical copy of it.

Exactly. So that's relevant point #1. When I buy a CD, I am buying the physical item, not the content data (songs). Correct? I have no ownership of the material contained on the disc, in and of itself.

[RUEZ]

Lemmy Lemmy:

RUEZ RUEZ:

Are you considered a customer when you steal something?

Of course not. We'll come back to that. Try my question, that I added as an edit to my last post.

That's a good question. I imagine if you had proof of purchase, and you supplied a small fee for the physical medium you should be entitled. That's the good thing about dowloading legal mp3's.

[Smacle]

Correct... That's what you aren't allowed to go download a new digital copy illegally. The artist didn't enter into a life long contract with you that if you lose or break your physical copy then you get a new one of your choice.

[Lemmy]

What I’m getting at is this: Musicians are paid a royalty on CD sales. They are employees of the record company. When I buy a CD, I’m buying the record company’s product, not the employees’ product. So I have no ownership of the song, just of the disc. Just like when I buy a Big Mac, I own the sandwich, not license to a steady stream of free mayonnaise, along with the fandom I’d pay to the mayonnaise inventor. So, first of all, if there is a case of theft here, the victim is the record company, not the artist. Anyone using the “You’re stealing from the artist” argument is talking out their ass, both logically and in reality.

If I go out and buy a roll of Fuju film for my camera and take 36 pictures and give them away free, sharing those files on the internet, am I stealing from the employees of Fuji film? It’s the same thing if the customer has no legal ownership over the content. The corporate world shouldn’t be able to have it both ways. Either I own the physical disc, meaning I can do whatever I wish with the files on it. Share them, sell them, whatever. Or I own license to the material on the disc, in which case I cannot legally share its content with people who don’t own the license, but then I’d be entitled to a free replacement copy if I should lose my disc. The music industry wants its cake and to eat it. If the receptionist at FUJI film doesn’t have claim against my sharing of photos, then musicians don’t have claim against my sharing mp3s.

[Brenda]

There used to be a time when artists made their money from their concerts and sale of merchandise... Now, all you have to do, is record a song, put copyright on it, put it on iTunes, amazon and cdbaby and expect to get rich.

They STILL make their money when they do concerts, but hey, you need to have some skill to sell tickets...

[Smacle]

No lemmy. The artists make money from those CDs too as part of their contract with the record company. So you are stealing their profits from their art when you download their music. You have no contract, no legal foothold, no justification. You are breaking the law and stealing, no argument to be made.

[Smacle]

That' why there used to be such a big deal when a band, "sold out".