[PJB]

Hey there Pub's...Ever have anything stolen? Ever have someone take your property?

Time to put up or shut the f*ck up because I have had property stolen. I have had someone break into my house!

[tritium]

PublicAnimalNo9, sorry man but I think one should be able to defend his home and property..

You trespass on my land, I would greet you with gun in hand.

[BartSimpson]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Hell, even in the Old West you couldn't really shoot someone in the back, no matter how big an asshole they were.

Since you want to invoke the Code of the West bear in mind that while it was considered poor form to shoot someone in the back that this same code you're citing here also said that no law abiding citizen had to back down to any criminal in any situation and that you could also pursue a criminal even to the point of killing the criminal.

[PJB]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

andyt andyt:

Yeah, you've got a point - the dick heads didn't even steal anything. But I get so tired of these pukes.

Oh trust me andy, so do I! But this kid did SO many things wrong when he shot at them. Hell, even in the Old West you couldn't really shoot someone in the back, no matter how big an asshole they were.

Go smoke so more of your special stuff...You, obviously are not much of a parent.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Heavy_Metal Heavy_Metal:

you are not to take the law into your own hands! if you want to shoot something, use a camera, fly out with a camera take pictures of the scumbags and give the pics to the police, when the hell will people learn, we have police for a reason.

Your courts and ours have ruled repeatedly that the police are not there to protect anyone or their property. They maintain order. Period.

So down here most states' laws recognize this point of jurisprudence and don't bother fettering people with silly rules when they have to defend themselves or their property. Because the legal expectation is that you are your own first responder.

But for some reason you and people like you are possessed of the bizarre notion that something magical happens to people who put on a badge and that they become uniquely qualified to protect everyone everywhere and that only they can be the High Priests of The Law.

And that's a fine attitude to have for a people who need to be ruled.

Really Bart, and with your professional training you think it's cool to shoot people while they are running away empty handed, AFTER they have already started to split before a gun was drawn, and not only that, then procede to "shoot in the direction" of the suspects without taking deliberate aim and without regard of who else might be around that's not involved.
Yep, that's real good gun discipline there. And these are the kind of people you think should own guns.
This goof is the PERFECT argument against what you believe about gun rights and use. No training, no discipline, blazes away like a "gangsta" at unarmed people, yep, we need more just like him

[PublicAnimalNo9]

PJB PJB:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

andyt andyt:

Yeah, you've got a point - the dick heads didn't even steal anything. But I get so tired of these pukes.

Oh trust me andy, so do I! But this kid did SO many things wrong when he shot at them. Hell, even in the Old West you couldn't really shoot someone in the back, no matter how big an asshole they were.

Go smoke so more of your special stuff...You, obviously are not much of a parent.

Oh? Why? Cuz my kid doesn't own an M-16 or a nice Glock? And yes PJB, I've had stuff stolen, never really wanted to shoot or kill someone over it though.
If you're a parent, and have a kid and own a gun and can't see what this guy did wrong, then for GOD'S SAKE DO NOT TEACH YOU KID ABOUT GUN USE!!!
Now, numbnuts, to bring you up to speed, I am in NO way against defending against home intruders. If someone breaks in and yer home, have at 'em. Just keep in mind that if they're not armed and you shoot 'em, yer fucked.
But, to repeat. If you think it's cool to shoot and or kill someone over material possessions, I gotta question your judgement.
And if you think it's cool to just shoot in the direction of someone without regard to anyone else who might have been in the area, then I seriously have to question your mentality.
Let's see Mr. Parent of the Year. Besides his random shooting, he also did not confront them with the weapon until they started to leave. So the gun played no part in their decision to split. At this point, it's no longer defense, it's called vengeance. Tell me Super Dad, how is it defense when the person isn't even on your property when you shoot them?

[PublicAnimalNo9]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Hell, even in the Old West you couldn't really shoot someone in the back, no matter how big an asshole they were.

Since you want to invoke the Code of the West bear in mind that while it was considered poor form to shoot someone in the back that this same code you're citing here also said that no law abiding citizen had to back down to any criminal in any situation and that you could also pursue a criminal even to the point of killing the criminal.

Ok fair enough Bart. So let's come back to the 21st Century then for a more contemporary example. Can police shoot an unarmed criminal while they are running away? And do they actually try to aim or just "shoot in their direction"?

[2Cdo]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

But, to repeat. If you think it's cool to shoot and or kill someone over material possessions, I gotta question your judgement.

But why should I just let thieves get away with stealing "things" that I worked hard for and paid for. It's attitudes like yours that criminals absolutely love.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

But, to repeat. If you think it's cool to shoot and or kill someone over material possessions, I gotta question your judgement.

But why should I just let thieves get away with stealing "things" that I worked hard for and paid for. It's attitudes like yours that criminals absolutely love.

Hey man, there's other weapons to use besides guns though. I'm talking about the potential for killing someone, hell, if you can catch 'em and bust 'em up a bit with a nice club or the butt end of a shotgun, go for it. The business end of a gun should be the LAST resort, not the first, unless of course your life is in immediate danger.
I've said many times in this forum, I'm not against firearms for home defense.
But in this particular scenario 2Cdo, these douches weren't shot at in defense of anything. They were starting to flee before the gun was even drawn.
I can't see how one can justify that as defense.

[DrCaleb]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

I can't see how one can justify that as defense.

$1:

The shot man, a resident of the O’Chiese First Nation reserve, was transported by ambulance and is now recovering in Red Deer Regional Hospital Centre with non-life threatening injuries.

Police charged Gerry Edward Franklin Bigchild, 19, of the Sunchild reserve with possession of a weapon for the purpose of committing an offence, careless use of a firearm, use of a firearm while committing an indictable offence, and aggravated assault. On Wednesday, he appeared in Rocky provincial court and got bail.

The quad that the alleged victim had been riding on had been reported stolen on Sunday from the Brazeau Dam area. A second quad found abandoned nearby had also been reported stolen from Rocky Mountain House on May 5. Police are expecting to lay criminal charges in connection with these matters.

A stolen dirt bike was also found in the same vicinity on Tuesday.

Rocky Mountain House RCMP say they are dealing with an epidemic of all-terrain vehicles being stolen within the town of Rocky, Clearwater County and the Brazeau Dam area over the past several years. In 2008, 140 of these thefts were reported in this region. With some arrests made, that number dropped to around 30 in 2009. Since February of this year, 25 thefts or attempted thefts have occurred, including 10 in May alone.

Police investigations have shown that numerous off-highway vehicles, damaged or completely written off, have been located on the O’Chiese First Nation reserve located less than 20 km from the Sunchild reserve.

Howse said police are concerned with vigilantism. They are urging people to secure their property, call RCMP if they encounter suspects and report licence plate numbers of any suspicious vehicles.

Through his investigations over the past two years, Howse said he’s heard some quad owners have caught suspects and done their own vigilante form of justice without police involvement.

“People are getting really frustrated — you are talking about insurance rates going up, you are talking about being victimized,” said Howse. “Some of these quad owners have been victimized two or three times over the years. For some, it’s their livelihood, using these vehicles around their farms.”

In Alberta, we ask the police to investigate crime, but we have not given up our testicles errr right to do so for ourself. How do you and I know that this was the first time for these people getting ripped off? The poor helpless 'victims' are fleeing the scene of a crime, probably not their first time, and they will probably return to violate these farmers again unless discouraged from doing so again.

When thieves are more likely to be shot for a tank of gas for their stolen quad, then the epidemic of thefts will stop.

[BartSimpson]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Can police shoot an unarmed criminal while they are running away? And do they actually try to aim or just "shoot in their direction"?

Yes to both counts. Happens all the time, too.

If a cop is armed only with a pistol and a serious felon is fleeing them then regardless of the felon being armed or not, the police can and will shoot at the felon...hence the old phrase, "Stop or I'll shoot!"

And when the cop is armed with a pistol most cops are expected to be proficient with the weapon out to about 25 to 50 yards depending on the agency. Past 50 yards many agencies will train their cops to dump a clip and hope for the best.

In the US this is called the 'Garner Standard' after a Supreme Court case.

Basically, lethal force can be used against an unarmed fleeing felon who poses an active threat to other people.

So if you're driving recklessly and you drive my patrol car off the road I can open fire on you as you flee because it is reasonable for me to expect that you're going to run someone else off the road, too.

The standards for a citizen defending themselves or their property is *lower* in 40 states. In those states the assumption of law is that when confronted by ANY criminal it is reasonable for a citizen to fear for their lives throughout the confrontation and even after the confrontation. In my own very liberal, very anti-gun city a man confronted an unarmed car thief who told the armed citizen to back off or he would come back and kill the citizen. The citizen shot and killed the thief on the basis of that threat. The district attorney said that the citizen's actions were reasonable given that the person making the threat obviously had no fear of an armed citizen.

In my own case, I will not dump a clip at anyone simply because I have a different standard for shooting discipline. I will not take a shot I am not sure I can make. It's just the way I roll. But I understand people, and cops, who fire away and hope for the best. It's the best they can do.

[BartSimpson]

Here's a good link on US law enforcement shooting policies: http://www.laaw.com/uodfs.htm

[Proculation]

Well at least pepe used a .22 caliber. Imagine if he used a strong caliber arm.

[KorbenDeck]

People who steal are filth on society, bullets cost $1.25. Cost effective way of dealing with trash.

[Proculation]

KorbenDeck KorbenDeck:

People who steal are filth on society, bullets cost $1.25. Cost effective way of dealing with trash.

Usually, I put my trash near the road to 'deal with it'