[andyt]

I repeat:

$1:

A 2011 study by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre looked at the 2,379 potential offenders caught grooming girls since 2008. Of 940 suspects whose race could be identified, 26% were Asian, 38% were white and 32% were recorded as unknown. Asians are roughly 7% of the population.

A report for the children's commissioner in 2012 found there were 1,514 perpetrators. Of these, 545 were white, 415 were Asian and 244 were black. The ethnicity of 21% of perpetrators was not recorded. [u]Attempts to analyse the Asian figure further runs into problems. Just 35 of the 415 Asians are recorded as having Pakistani heritage and thus highly likely to be Muslim, and only five are recorded as being from a Bangladeshi background. The heritage of 366 of the Asian group is not stated in those figures.[/u]

So much for Asian always meaning Pakistani Muslim.

However, the view in different parts of law enforcement is that it is wrong to take these figures and cases and say the race or religion of the perpetrator leads to them committing these crimes.

A more credible link, says one senior source involved in bringing the criminals to justice, are their occupations. Speaking on condition of anonymity, the source said the demography of certain areas and the makeup of the night-time economy explained the over-representation of Asian offenders.

The source said: "Young vulnerable girls migrate to the night-time economy, where they come across taxi drivers and people working in takeaways, who are more likely to be Asian. It is better to focus on the professions of offenders, not their race or religion."

Meanwhile, group grooming is a small part of the sexual abuse threat facing Britain's children. Some of those working in protecting children from sexual abuse worry that the wrong message is being given about who poses dangers to children from the media coverage of "Asian grooming gangs".

They say the biggest dangers are not just on the street, but online, and the totality of abuse shows far more white people are perpetrators

Court cases later this year will see allegations against mixed race sex gangs, including one with Asian and white suspects, and another with Asian and African men. Cases involving white suspects did not gain the same media attention as those where Asian gang members were convicted

The idea that these are criminals striking when the opportunity arises, regardless of race, is given credence by the leader of the grooming gang in Rochdale. Shabir Ahmed was jailed for attacking a young Asian female as well as young white females. His case suggests opportunity, not race, was the major factor in whom he attacked.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/ ... abuse-race

$1:

We’ve summarised the findings of the OCC inquiry below, but there are a few caveats to bear in mind. In its interim report it noted a number of issues with recording practices:

…during site visits it was apparent that agencies frequently focused on the model of sexual exploitation identified in high profile cases such as those in Derby and Rochdale. Perpetrators, like victims, had similar individual characteristics to those featured in those cases. As a result this was the specific pattern of abuse professionals looked out for. They often told the panel that the perpetrator groups were ‘Asian’ without a more detailed analysis, including whether this label referred to nationality or ethnicity. The Inquiry was informed in several site visits of groups of perpetrators who were described generically as ‘Asian’ but who, upon further investigation, turned out to include Afghan, Kurdish and White British perpetrators.

The report also identified similar tendencies when profiling victims, with professionals sometimes mistakenly characterising them as being predominantly white even when this wasn’t the case.

There’s also evidence to suggest that the data is skewed by a tendency of authorities to record the ethnicity of some groups more often than others – the OCC report also said that “it is evident that data are more proactively gathered on men and boys of Pakistani and Kurdish origin”.

And the recorded crimes might not reflect the nature of all the crimes that take place. As part of its research the OCC interviewed children and young people whose abusers had generally never been charged. It found what it called a “significant gap” between their experiences and recorded data.

That applies equally to details about the victims themselves – there’s some reason to suspect that children from minority ethnic backgrounds might be less likely to report abuse than White British children. This was a concern raised in the Rotherham report, which recommended greater engagement with Pakistani communities to help encourage victims to come forward.

https://fullfact.org/crime/sex_offender ... oming_roth

[andyt]

From your own link:

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There is, sadly, no community where women and girls are not at risk from sexual predators. The CPS has prosecuted people from over 25 countries, excluding those from outside the EU, for sexual offences and trafficking in the past three years. Abusers are of all nationalities, ethnicities and ages, though the vast majority are white British males.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3C1EAjUM4
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[ccga3359]

Again you're comparing apples to oranges. No one is disputing sexual predators come all walks of live, of all ethnic and religious backgrounds in Britain. I've listed but three serial abusers that were very well known and white, one being Britain's top radio DJ, one a Politian and one, a TV and recording icon. All are scandalous, but we are talking grooming gangs targeting, mainly, white under-aged girls. So please list all the non Pakistani moslem grooming gangs, that your research shows, working in Britain, targeting children based on religion. Hell, even all those targeting children NOT based on religions. Feel free to list all the Pakistani moslem gangs that you find to show you're not skewing your results.

[PluggyRug]

andyt andyt:

Just how Pakistani is somebody born in England?

Some are more Pakistani than the Pakistanis living in Pakistan. Having had to work with them for a number of years I have first hand experience. They made an absolute zero effort to integrate and would (metaphorically) stab you in the back given a chance.

[andyt]

Christ, how often do I have to post this:

$1:

A 2011 study by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre looked at the 2,379 potential offenders caught grooming girls since 2008. Of 940 suspects whose race could be identified, 26% were Asian, 38% were white and 32% were recorded as unknown. Asians are roughly 7% of the population.

You seem to have some very narrow definition of grooming gangs, that apparently only Pakistani Muslims fit that definition, then triumphantly trumpet see - they're all Pakistani Muslims. What exactly is your definition of grooming gang? in the quote above, how does that not show that the majority are white grooming gangs?

But what does it matter if they are gangs or individuals, this is about young girls (and I bet there are boys too) being seduced or coerced into prostitution. You seem to think it's worse when Pakistani Muslims do it than when other people do the exact same thing. The outcome is the same.

[saturn_656]

Asians are grooming children at a rate three or four times what their share of the population would warrant?

Sounds like grounds for an inquiry.

Seriously, they could only identify 940 of over 2,300 and of those 940 32% are unknown?

Somebody wasn't trying very hard.

[andyt]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Asians are grooming children at a rate three or four times what their share of the population would warrant?

Sounds like grounds for an inquiry.

Seriously, they could only identify 940 of over 2,300 and of those 940 32% are unknown?

Somebody wasn't trying very hard.

Ok, this is more reasonable. The rate is disproportionate to their population. Not sure what an inquiry would solve tho. That's like saying Native crime in Canada is disproportionate to population. We know the reasons for it. We know that most crime in Canada is perpetrated by whites, and that crime won't go away even if we figure out how to reduce Native closer to their share of population. Same deal with these grooming gangs. Girls (and boys) are going to get seduced and forced into prostitution. The focus should be on preventing as much of it as possible with strict enforcement and prosecution.

Same deal with the call for a missing women's inquiry. Natives hope it will show the white man is racist, when a fair run commission would also show that natives need to clean up their own house. I don't agree with Harper that large numbers of missing and murdered women is no a sociological question, but I agree with not needing an inquiry. We know what the reasons are.

[ccga3359]

andyt andyt:

Christ, how often do I have to post this:

$1:

A 2011 study by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre looked at the 2,379 potential offenders caught grooming girls since 2008. Of 940 suspects whose race could be identified, 26% were Asian, 38% were white and 32% were recorded as unknown. Asians are roughly 7% of the population.

And why could 1439 not be identified based on race? Was that when the gag orders were in effect as they were in Rotherham? How scientific on race when 65% is not reported?

[N_Fiddledog]

andyt andyt:

Christ, how often do I have to post this:

At least until you admit it's a bogus report that has been criticized for it's lack of hard data, and does not even say what you want it to say when you give it a serious study.

Even the far left Newspaper you quoted for it later had to admit...

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The numbers in the report have been called into question. One unnamed government source told the Daily Mail that the report was "half-baked", adding: "It is difficult to overstate the contempt the government has for the methodology and analysis in this report." The Daily Telegraph quoted senior government ministers – who appeared to use similar language – describing its 138-page interim report as "hysterical and half-baked".

[snip]

only 21 of 39 police constabulary areas responded to appeals for information while there was less data on perpetrators.

The report itself complains of among other things...

$1:

Gaps in data on victims and perpetrators; biased data, given that some agencies go looking for CSE and others do not; varying definitions of CSE in groups and gangs; data gaps on specific warning signs of CSE; datasets held by a number of departments and agencies that are not office of the children's commissioner/inquiry into child sexual exploitation in gangs and groups/interim report joined-up; health statistics on abortions and sexually-transmitted diseases not made available to the inquiry.

And here's one I'd wish you'd read before you jump to bogus conclusions based on this bogus three year old report. It's from the writer of the report herself.

Berelowitz said the lack of comprehensive figures of perpetrators of sexual exploitation made it impossible to draw nationwide conclusions about ethnicity.

That does not mean everybody who is noticing the high incidence of south Asian Muslims in these new grooming gang case must now refuse to believe his lying eyes. It only means that Suzy doesn't actually have a clue what the race and religious makeup is of the perpetrators.

Also...

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The Times reported that the education secretary, Michael Gove, and senior government ministers "believe the report deliberately plays down the role of Asian abusers" and quoted an education source as saying: "Political correctness will not get in the way of preventing and uncovering child abuse.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012 ... use-report

Here's another debunking of the bogus out of date report.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... gangs.html

[N_Fiddledog]

As to the report not saying what you want it to say; here's one you underlined. Apparently you thought it was important.

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Attempts to analyse the Asian figure further runs into problems. Just 35 of the 415 Asians are recorded as having Pakistani heritage and thus highly likely to be Muslim, and only five are recorded as being from a Bangladeshi background. The heritage of 366 of the Asian group is not stated in those figures.

Stop and think about that for a sec. 415 are asians. 35 admitted to somebody somewhere (we're not sure who) they were Pakistani. The heritage of 366 was undetermined. So even by the nonsense figures of the bogus report 401 of the 415 could be Pakistani. (Actually Bangladeshi and other Muslim populations have also been implicated in the grooming gang phenomena).

However you concluded...

$1:

So much for Asian always meaning Pakistani Muslim.

How in the name all that's rational did you ever come up with that conclusion?

[N_Fiddledog]

Here's what we know for a fact without need for a report - bogus or otherwise.

100% of the Muslim grooming gangs are perpetrated by Muslims who groom in gangs.

Also I'm going to suggest hundreds of perpetrators have or will soon be implicated in cases involving thousands of victims.

The hard data is on its way.

[andyt]

ccga3359 ccga3359:

andyt andyt:

Christ, how often do I have to post this:

$1:

A 2011 study by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre looked at the 2,379 potential offenders caught grooming girls since 2008. Of 940 suspects whose race could be identified, 26% were Asian, 38% were white and 32% were recorded as unknown. Asians are roughly 7% of the population.

And why could 1439 not be identified based on race? Was that when the gag orders were in effect as they were in Rotherham? How scientific on race when 65% is not reported?

Oh, please. Read some of the critiques I've posted. Britain doesn't have standardized record keeping of perps and victims' race or religions, and in fact as was stated, many people identified as Asian either weren't (including being white) or if Asian were not Pakistani. Somewhere in all this bunf was shown that only 50 out of over a thousand were clearly identified as Pakistani. That is a long long way from your claim of 95% pakistani. It just ain't so.

[ccga3359]

The 95% statistic was based on 99 convictions of individuals involved in grooming gangs, 94 of which were Pakistani moslems. I did post that link for you further back. now how goes your search for non Pakistani grooming gangs in the UK, you should have several dozens by now according to your statistics.

[andyt]

99 individuals, yet all sources say there were thousands of perps - see the problem? You're not really claiming there were only 99 perps in all of Britain in the last 16 years, are you? Because you claimed this figure applied to all of Britain, when in fact it seems to apply to only one small part of the entire number. And that is exactly how things get distorted, and how hysteria is built up that we have to do something about Pakistani grooming gangs, when it fact what we - they - have to do is something about all the grooming gangs, no matter what their ethnicity.

[N_Fiddledog]

andyt andyt:

Oh, please. Read some of the critiques I've posted. Britain doesn't have standardized record keeping of perps and victims' race or religions,

But can't you get it through your thick head. That also means you can not jump to conclusions and start telling people not to look behind the curtain when they follow these court cases and say, 'look at all the Muslims in these Muslim grooming gangs".

$1:

and in fact as was stated, many people identified as Asian either weren't (including being white) or if Asian were not Pakistani. Somewhere in all this bunf was shown that only 50 out of over a thousand were clearly identified as Pakistani. That is a long long way from your claim of 95% pakistani. It just ain't so.

Do you have anything other that bogus anecdotes from shown to be bogus reports or did those come from the source you more commonly use, known as upyourass.com?