[andyt]

ccga3359 ccga3359:

andyt andyt:

ccga3359 ccga3359:

So, let me get this right. Because numerous people have proven that the vast majority of child sex grooming gangs in Britain are perpetrated by Pakistani moslems you feel the need to dilute this fact by introducing non moslem pedophilia statistics from around the world to skew the facts in Britain to your favour?

No, sorry, the proof is that the majority of child pimping in Britain has been shown to be from Anglicans. (Well to be fair the were labelled white, so maybe they were all Muslim converts. Doubt it tho) Only you keep spouting on about them all being Muslim, and of course get Martin to salivate in his hatred. Then you conflate Rotherham with Britain to try to back up your claim.

The reason I seem so pro Muslim on this forum is because of the extreme and irrational hatred of Muslims expressed here. All that can do is make happen what you all fear - make all Muslims in the West feel under attack and that they have no choice to defend themselves and throw their lot in with the jihadis. Maybe that's what you want. The way out of this is to ally with the majority of Western Muslims that want peace, not to push them into the enemy camp.

Andy, it was shown to you numerous times that grooming gangs are vastly Pakistani moslems (I never said "all" BTW) You produce a report shown to be skewed by the same disease faced by the victims of Rotherham. never have I said the pedophiles in Britain are usually only Pakistani moslems, in fact I've listed two very disturbing individuals that were very British and very white that is indeed tip of the iceberg as far as Operation Yewtree is concerned. Please stop equating that the only form of pedophilia behaviour is in the form of grooming gangs. There are undoubtedly many cases of pedophilia perpetrated by individuals working alone, across all cultural and ethnic backgrounds and who knows the majority is probably white. The past events in Rotherham and the recent prosecution of a grooming gang there, whom where indeed P/M shows a disturbing and systemic problem. Over the past couple of years there have been several grooming gangs successfully prosecuted and it was from those prosecutions that the 95% figure comes from (I provided you that link some pages back). Here's a link about the chief crown prosecutor of the Rochdale sex gang that was successfully tried. Let's see if you pick up on the one nugget in there that you'll think will make all your denial valid: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... cutor.html

From your own link:

$1:

There is, sadly, no community where women and girls are not at risk from sexual predators. The CPS has prosecuted people from over 25 countries, excluding those from outside the EU, for sexual offences and trafficking in the past three years. Abusers are of all nationalities, ethnicities and ages, though the vast majority are white British males.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3C1EAjUM4
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


You are mixing up some recent prosecutions where the perps were mostly Pakistani Muslims, and thinking that this indicates this is true for all of Britain. As the prosecutor himself says, this is not the case. This is not a meaningful statistical sample. The quote exactly backs up what I have been harping about, no matter how much some people here don't want to believe it.

Not prosecuting these guys because of racism fears is wrong. So it making it out as if this is the only race/religion involved, or even that it is in the majority.


If your point has been that these recent cases that came to attention were all about Pakistani Muslims, then yes, you're right. But what a trite point - we knew that from the outset, the stories about this start off by telling you that. Getting hung up on that does nothing to deal with the problem all over the country perpetrated by "all nationalities, ethnicities and ages" and even genders.

[Gunnair]

andyt andyt:

And there was Thanos accusing me of using child prostitutes. I know he's not always responsible for what he says, but it was still disgusting, no excuse for it.

I was curious and looked but couldn't find that.

[andyt]

On another thread, forget which one. I stepped over the line first, saying his brain was booze addled, but his comeback was just way too much. I'm going to assume he didn't really mean it, i would hope. I would certainly not have further discussions with somebody I seriously thought was using underage prostitutes. If he'd just left out the underage bit, no harm no foul. It's been a 40 years since I tried that with a couple of adult women, but if wants to hang that on me, I can live with it. It was in a country where it's legal, I didn't particularly care for it and haven't done so again.

[ccga3359]

First off, Andy, what is the title of this thread? It is not about child prostitution throughout the world, it is about one particular issue in Britain. You've produced a document to show all aspects of rape in the UK, the topic here is the child prostitution grooming gangs, vast majority being Pakistani moslems. Crimes committed based solely race ethnicity and religion with children being the victims. Well, two crimes if one includes the authorities lack of duty to the victims(which I do).

Although I cannot speak for Zipperfish, I'm assuming, like me, he has a keen interest in what is going on in our country of birth. Especially since this happened in his old neighbourhood. (Zipperfish, my apologies if I am incorrect).

No where in this thread have I read anyone calling for the death of, or deporting all moslems, regardless of their place of birth, only for the prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law. Nor can I recall Thanos suggesting that you partake in pedophilia come to think of it.

I do indeed share your outrage over child prostitution on a global scale. Might I suggest a new thread in that regard.

[andyt]

No. You've repeatedly stated this was true for all of Britain. As the prosecutor himself said, they come in all ethnicities and religions.

Of course this particular gang was Pakistani Muslim. That's what the story is about, as you say. So you're just repeating a tautology.

My links do not refer to all aspects of rape, but the victimization of young girls for prostitution. It's not just Pakistani Muslims that do this in Britain, not even the majority. How often do we have to rehash this?

Next question for gay old Blighty - how many boys meet the same fate?

[andyt]

Here's one for people who think it's all about brown men wanting white girls:

$1:

She claimed that sexual exploitation and grooming of young Asian girls by men of the same ethnic origins was happening under the noses of authorities - with community leaders, schools and families are all too ready to dismiss the attacks or even cover them up.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3C1QiSsRI
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Maybe the next scandal.

[ccga3359]

andyt andyt:

Here's one for people who think it's all about brown men wanting white girls:

$1:

She claimed that sexual exploitation and grooming of young Asian girls by men of the same ethnic origins was happening under the noses of authorities - with community leaders, schools and families are all too ready to dismiss the attacks or even cover them up.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3C1QiSsRI
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Maybe the next scandal.

Cogratulations you've just shown that vast majority of these men are Pakistani moslems. Birmingham, Oxford, Rochdale, listed in this article. You didn't just glance over that part did you?. yes they've abused non-white girls too, I sure that some groups have included boys as well. Nobody here has denied that. Listen if you need ammunition regarding abuse of young boys and with authorities doing fuck all about it check out Jimmy Savile and Cyril Smith, got away scot-free. Rolf Harris on the other hand is now doing 8 years thankfully.

[andyt]

Yes. Are Birmingham, Oxford and Rochdale the extent of England? Again, look back at the links, they all say that the majority of perps identified nationally were white, although Asians account for more than the population would suggest. I don't understand why you don't get this.

[ccga3359]

andyt andyt:

Yes. Are Birmingham, Oxford and Rochdale the extent of England? Again, look back at the links, they all say that the majority of perps identified nationally were white, although Asians account for more than the population would suggest. I don't understand why you don't get this.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msa=0 ... dg=feature

[ShepherdsDog]

That's a lot of wogs

[N_Fiddledog]

andyt andyt:

I've actually posted numbers that show the majority are not Muslims at all, even in England.

No you didn't. You posted a debunked report, and even you admit in your next sentence there is no reliable data on race and religion. So once and for all can you can the bullshit. That one's a lie, and you know it.

$1:

Proper record keeping of ethnicity and religion of perps is very sketchy and inaccurate. It does seem like Pakistani Muslims are over represented in terms of population, but aren't by far the majority. By making this about Muslims or Pakistanis, the larger point is lost that men and women from all backgrounds groom children as prostitutes.

Nothing is making this about Pakistani Muslims except the facts.

What makes this news isn't the child abuse and pimping children angle on its own. It's that this particular Muslim gang grooming version of the crime has been allowed to infect large geographical segments of the UK over a number of years without being addressed. Those who were empowered with preventing the abuse ignored their duty out of political correctness.

Race and religion make it news, because they are central aspects of the story. Some in charge have claimed they did nothing about the crime out of fear of being called racist. That's why it's news and why the issues of race and religion are now open for discussion.

And you know this Andy. You said it yourself on the previous page. Now you want to dodge around the fact of it.

You're right about one thing though. The Muslim grooming gang crime is larger than the Muslim grooming gangs that perpetrated them. It is also about you and yours whose type insisted on providing cover for the perps, and even now under the pretense of phony equivalency apologize for the criminals.

We talk about Muslim grooming gangs, because it's what the Muslim grooming gang crime is about. We continue to talk about it, because you apologists continue with the weaseling, bullshit demand that it has to be about something else. You refuse to let it be and allow the facts to tell their own story. Why? Feeling guilty?

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

It should be vigorously policed and prosecuted. That's where they fell down in Rochdale, as we've seen in part because of fears of being labelled racist, in part because the cops themselves saw these girls as scum, just as the abusers did.

Saying "it's the muslims" then doing something nasty to muslims and washing your hands thinking you've accomplished something will just allow non-Muslim gangs to flourish because the focus will be all on Muslim gangs. There are only so many girls available that are vulnerable to this, remove the Muslims and other predators will move in unless you police all of them, no matter what their race or religion.

I don't advise doing anything nasty to Muslims. That is not my style. On the contrary, it would be my guess that life will be a lot more miserable for all the Muslims in Britain happily motoring along with their lives and not bothering anybody if we continue this charade of pretending that integration of some Muslims in Britain and Europe has not had some serious issues. There is a problem with Islam and western values. That is evident in Rotherham--where those girls were picked because they were not Muslim. It is evident in the "sharia" areas of London where non-Muslims are harassed. It is evident with some Western Muslims flying off to Syria to saw people's heads off, it is evident in terror attacks.

You've tried to pass it off on the authorities, on the girls, on Brazilian sex gangs. Anybody, in fact, but the exact people who perpetrated these horrible crimes.

The appalling disregard those authorities has for the girls is obvious. Equally obvious is that these gangs are overwhelmingly Muslim men preying on non-Muslim girls.

[Thanos]

If someone as intensely normal, non-ideological, patient, intelligent, and non-bigoted as Zippy says there's a problem with the way too many Muslims are behaving in our society then the rest of you better listen. Hiding behind a failed immigration policy and accusations of racism against anyone who says there's a major problem going on here is no solution. The clear and obvious pattern in there for anyone not blind enough to see it.

I like Zippy. He's put up with my bullshit routine for years.

[Gunnair]

Thanos Thanos:

If someone as intensely normal, non-ideological, patient, intelligent, and non-bigoted as Zippy says there's a problem with the way too many Muslims are behaving in our society then the rest of you better listen. Hiding behind a failed immigration policy and accusations of racism against anyone who says there's a major problem going on here is no solution. The clear and obvious pattern in there for anyone not blind enough to see it.

I like Zippy. He's put up with my bullshit routine for years.

Agreed.

[andyt]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

andyt andyt:

It should be vigorously policed and prosecuted. That's where they fell down in Rochdale, as we've seen in part because of fears of being labelled racist, in part because the cops themselves saw these girls as scum, just as the abusers did.

Saying "it's the muslims" then doing something nasty to muslims and washing your hands thinking you've accomplished something will just allow non-Muslim gangs to flourish because the focus will be all on Muslim gangs. There are only so many girls available that are vulnerable to this, remove the Muslims and other predators will move in unless you police all of them, no matter what their race or religion.

I don't advise doing anything nasty to Muslims. That is not my style. On the contrary, it would be my guess that life will be a lot more miserable for all the Muslims in Britain happily motoring along with their lives and not bothering anybody if we continue this charade of pretending that integration of some Muslims in Britain and Europe has not had some serious issues. There is a problem with Islam and western values. That is evident in Rotherham--where those girls were picked because they were not Muslim. It is evident in the "sharia" areas of London where non-Muslims are harassed. It is evident with some Western Muslims flying off to Syria to saw people's heads off, it is evident in terror attacks.

You've tried to pass it off on the authorities, on the girls, on Brazilian sex gangs. Anybody, in fact, but the exact people who perpetrated these horrible crimes.

The appalling disregard those authorities has for the girls is obvious. Equally obvious is that these gangs are overwhelmingly Muslim men preying on non-Muslim girls.

Of course there's a problem. But look at what you write - some Muslims (fair enough), then Islam and Western values. Islam is all Muslims. So which is it, Islam, or some Muslims? That is why I react so strongly to FD's hate campaign - it seeks to apply to all Muslims. As you say lots of Muslims not bothering anybody. Make this about Islam, and you lose those Muslims not bothering anybody, you drive them to the wall, and they will turn against you (us). In Britain, at least, that would be a bloody mess. Far better to ally with those Muslims not bothering anybody against the jihadis and the criminal scum that did these vile things.

So, recognize that fear of racism has gone way too far, and that the police should have acted. I would guess that's been accomplished. But also recognize that this is not a problem isolated to Muslims, and prosecute it vigorously no matter who's doing it. And it seems a lot of non-Muslims are also doing it. Take that approach, and the decent Muslims will help instead of hinder you, they want this scourge no more than we do. As has been shown, this is also happening to Asian girls, just that it is covered up because of the shame. That boil also needs to be lanced.

I worry about all this exactly because I do see the problem. Pretending it doesn't exist is stupid and will lead to serious harm to our society. Overemphasise it, as happens on this forum, is just as stupid and will lead to just as much harm.