[OnTheIce]

Delwin Delwin:

@Regina

Rarely, secondary encephalitis occurs as a complication of a live virus vaccination.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20021917

Vaccines have saved untold millions of lives, and the vast majority of people who get them suffer no major problems.

But there's a trade-off: occasionally, vaccines cause injury or death. Very rarely, patients are left with what's known as "encephalopathy", the medical term for brain damage.

In fact, CBS News has found nearly 1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccines-au ... in-a-name/

That equates to "occasionally'?

[Delwin]

Regina Regina:

Delwin Delwin:

While “natural immunity” does tend to be more protective than “vaccine-induced immunity,” the high price of natural immunity is not a risk worth taking when a safe vaccine is available and effective.

Your link had 25 immunizations and side effects. Which ones are more protected by natural immunity?

Who cares ?According to the AAP, my point that natural immunity can be more complete stands regarless of for which diseases this is true. OTI is arguing that natural immunity does not offer more complete protection. Evidently he is full of it.

[Delwin]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Delwin Delwin:

@Regina

Rarely, secondary encephalitis occurs as a complication of a live virus vaccination.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20021917

Vaccines have saved untold millions of lives, and the vast majority of people who get them suffer no major problems.

But there's a trade-off: occasionally, vaccines cause injury or death. Very rarely, patients are left with what's known as "encephalopathy", the medical term for brain damage.

In fact, CBS News has found nearly 1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccines-au ... in-a-name/

That equates to "occasionally'?

Who said occasionally ? I said extremely rarely. The CBS used occasionally, as in, "on occasion" or "not every time". Not the best word choice, I admit, but true none the less.

[Regina]

Delwin Delwin:

@Regina

Rarely, secondary encephalitis occurs as a complication of a live virus vaccination.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20021917

Vaccines have saved untold millions of lives, and the vast majority of people who get them suffer no major problems.

But there's a trade-off: occasionally, vaccines cause injury or death. Very rarely, patients are left with what's known as "encephalopathy", the medical term for brain damage.

In fact, CBS News has found nearly 1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccines-au ... in-a-name/

No idea what the Mayo link is telling me other than the effects of contracting a number of viruses which I don't believe had anything to do with the first link.
Your second link points to the fact there were lawyers and judges who decided they were related. Not exactly real science there.

[OnTheIce]

Delwin Delwin:

Who said occasionally ? I said extremely rarely. The CBS used occasionally, as in, "on occasion" or "not every time". Not the best word choice, I admit, but true none the less.

From your post:

But there's a trade-off: occasionally, vaccines cause injury or death.

With about 4 million live births a year since 1980, we're dealing with 140 million kids that likely were exposed to the vaccine.


With 1296 cases, that equates to a 0.0009257% chance of severe injury.


You have a better chance of being killed by your TV falling on you.

[Delwin]

Regina Regina:

Delwin Delwin:

@Regina

Rarely, secondary encephalitis occurs as a complication of a live virus vaccination.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20021917

Vaccines have saved untold millions of lives, and the vast majority of people who get them suffer no major problems.

But there's a trade-off: occasionally, vaccines cause injury or death. Very rarely, patients are left with what's known as "encephalopathy", the medical term for brain damage.

In fact, CBS News has found nearly 1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccines-au ... in-a-name/

No idea what the Mayo link is telling me other than the effects of contracting a number of viruses which I don't believe had anything to do with the first link.
Your second link points to the fact there were lawyers and judges who decided they were related. Not exactly real science there.

Encephalitis is the type of brain damage that is being refered to in the first link:

$1:

Encephalitis is acute inflammation (swelling up) of the brain resulting either from a viral infection or when the body's own immune system mistakenly attacks brain tissue. The most common cause is a viral infection. In medicine acute means it comes on abruptly; of abrupt onset, develops rapidly, and usually requires urgent care...

Encephalitis can be life-threatening, but this is very rare.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/168997.php

[Regina]

Delwin Delwin:

Regina Regina:

Delwin Delwin:

@Regina

Rarely, secondary encephalitis occurs as a complication of a live virus vaccination.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20021917

Vaccines have saved untold millions of lives, and the vast majority of people who get them suffer no major problems.

But there's a trade-off: occasionally, vaccines cause injury or death. Very rarely, patients are left with what's known as "encephalopathy", the medical term for brain damage.

In fact, CBS News has found nearly 1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccines-au ... in-a-name/

No idea what the Mayo link is telling me other than the effects of contracting a number of viruses which I don't believe had anything to do with the first link.
Your second link points to the fact there were lawyers and judges who decided they were related. Not exactly real science there.

Encephalitis is the type of brain damage that is being refered to in the first link:

$1:

Encephalitis is acute inflammation (swelling up) of the brain resulting either from a viral infection or when the body's own immune system mistakenly attacks brain tissue. The most common cause is a viral infection. In medicine acute means it comes on abruptly; of abrupt onset, develops rapidly, and usually requires urgent care...

Encephalitis can be life-threatening, but this is very rare.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/168997.php

I'm well aware of what Encephalitis is. Your first link stated they were caused by a number of listed viruses and had nothing to do with vaccinations. So why are you linking this to the topic?

[Regina]

Since we seem to drifting off on some of the other billions of viruses in the world, how about we stick with the more common ones and are preventable?
This is probably the most common and one that was in the first link.

$1:

MMR vaccine side-effects
(Measles, Mumps, and Rubella)

Severe Problems (Very Rare)
Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses)
Several other severe problems have been reported after a child gets MMR vaccine, including:
Deafness
Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
Permanent brain damage
These are so rare that it is hard to tell whether they are caused by the vaccine.

[Delwin]

Not really sure how many credible sources you need to be convinced but here is another:

Encephalitis

Encephalitis has been reported in association with administration of measles vaccine in approximately 1 per million doses distributed in North America which is much lower than that observed with natural measles disease (1 per 1,000 cases).

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/cig ... ug-eng.php

[OnTheIce]

Delwin Delwin:

Not really sure how many credible sources you need to be convinced but here is another:

Encephalitis

Encephalitis has been reported in association with administration of measles vaccine in approximately 1 per million doses distributed in North America which is much lower than that observed with natural measles disease (1 per 1,000 cases).

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/cig ... ug-eng.php

I used your numbers and your links to prove you wrong.

What else do you need?

1300 cases. 140,000,000 million live births. 0.0009257% chance of severe injury.

[DrCaleb]

Delwin Delwin:

Not really sure how many credible sources you need to be convinced but here is another:

Encephalitis

Encephalitis has been reported in association with administration of measles vaccine in approximately 1 per million doses distributed in North America which is much lower than that observed with natural measles disease (1 per 1,000 cases).

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/cig ... ug-eng.php

1 in 1000 is also the number of kids that will get encephalitis as a result of contracting the Measles according to your link. Same odds.

1 in 5000 people who get measles will die, but only 69 deaths from the vaccine in 10 years. Much higher odds of dying from the disease, not the cure.

[Delwin]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Delwin Delwin:

Not really sure how many credible sources you need to be convinced but here is another:

Encephalitis

Encephalitis has been reported in association with administration of measles vaccine in approximately 1 per million doses distributed in North America which is much lower than that observed with natural measles disease (1 per 1,000 cases).

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/cig ... ug-eng.php

I used your numbers and your links to prove you wrong.

What else do you need?

1300 cases. 140,000,000 million live births. 0.0009257% chance of severe injury.

Ok, now I see where you went wrong, it's your reading comprehension:

1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years.

Contracted the disease and recieved money in court are 2 different things.

[sandorski]

Delwin Delwin:

Sorry you can't force children to get vaccinated any more than you can force pregnant women to take thalidomide. Parents are entitled to raise their children how they like.

Although I believe that getting vaccinated is the best option, there are actual benefits to not getting vaccinated and risk to those whom do and for that reason I believe it should be a choice.

Risks and potential side effects:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

If your first kid got severe brain damage from the measles vaccine, which is an actual extremely rare side effect, I am thinking you would all opt out of giving your second child the same vaccine.

The choice needs to be there.

No. Only exception should be Medical Grounds, ie, allergy or other negative affect of ingredients in the vaccine. Parents are making the choice now, but those who refuse to vaccinate are putting their children at risk.

[Delwin]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Delwin Delwin:

Not really sure how many credible sources you need to be convinced but here is another:

Encephalitis

Encephalitis has been reported in association with administration of measles vaccine in approximately 1 per million doses distributed in North America which is much lower than that observed with natural measles disease (1 per 1,000 cases).

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/cig ... ug-eng.php

1 in 1000 is also the number of kids that will get encephalitis as a result of contracting the Measles according to your link. Same odds.

1 in 5000 people who get measles will die, but only 69 deaths from the vaccine in 10 years. Much higher odds of dying from the disease, not the cure.

Not true when you consdider the odds of actually contracting the measles; Canada averages less than 20 cases of measles a year.

[OnTheIce]

Delwin Delwin:

Ok, now I see where you went wrong, it's your reading comprehension:

1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years.

Contracted the disease and recieved money in court are 2 different things.

Ok, so let's look at some real numbers.

Odds are 1 in a million that you'll get Encephalitis from the measles vaccine.

http://www.healthlinkbc.ca/healthfiles/hfile14a.stm

That makes the odds 0.000099%.

You just made my case stronger.