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<strong>Title: </strong> <a href="/link.php?id=20444" target="_blank">Quebec right on Muslims</a> (click to view)

<strong>Category:</strong> <a href="/news/topic/14-misc-cdn" target="_blank">Misc CDN</a>
<strong>Posted By: </strong> <a href="/modules.php?name=Your_Account&op=userinfo&username=Alta_redneck" target="_blank">Alta_redneck</a>
<strong>Date: </strong> 2007-04-02 09:16:57
<strong>Canadian</strong>

[Mr_Canada old]

"And Until recently, they haven't shown their pride in Canada."

[tsotas]

If Canada isn't tolerant of Muslims we will be just like American. It is acti-Canadian to dislike Muslims.

LOVE A MUSLIM TODAY!!

[camerontech]

tsotas tsotas:

If Canada isn't tolerant of Muslims we will be just like American. It is acti-Canadian to dislike Muslims.

LOVE A MUSLIM TODAY!!

that's the dumbest thing I've heard all day

[stratos]

Love those who's holly book says to kill you. Um no thanks

[tsotas]

Guess I should have added the "tongue in cheek" emoticon. "blush"

[Confused]

Good job Quebec!

Now if the rest of Canada would follow.

[hwacker]

Yep Quebec is going down the right road.

[fire_i]

In that text the author goes "yes to assimilation and integration, no to accomodation". Ah. Then he mentions France's problem with muslims in suburbs. Ah.

Wait.

Isn't "assimilation and integration" all what France had been doing for the last 20-odd years before the problems in the suburbs became massive? Hmm. Didn't quite work did it?

Why not favor "integration and accomodation"? You don't need to assimilate an immigrant for him to be a good asset of your society, he just needs to be integrated - and anyway, why concentrate on the first generation of immigrants when we now are perfectly aware, judging from what happened in France and what happens in Canada itself, that the second and subsequent generations are much more important, being that they could actually end up feeling 100% canadian (unlike their parents, who will always not really feel like they truly fit in entirely)? Anyway the first immigrant will eventually die, so even if he never actually is assimilated, as long as he doesn't feel like he's oppressed, there's no problem. Over time his children and their children and so on will end up just like you and I, and not like the frustrated and crazed revolted youths from France's suburbs.

It's nice and all when assimilation functions, but when it doesn't, what happens? The immigrant feels 'attacked' and 'flees' to areas where he can hang around with other immigrants, and only then (but of course he remains in the country because he wants to keep beneficiating from its services). The result : a community of immigrants with a quality of life lower than that of the rest of the country who are also marginalized among the 'mainstream society' because they refuse to assimilate. Okay. That maybe can work out with the 1st generation, because they'll know they're more of a stranger than anything else. But the 2nd generation kid, and all the next ones, will not see why in the world they have to have a life much worse than that of their 'native' neighbors. They're born in the same country after all, no? Result of that, high discontent among the immigrants. France probably shows one of the worst possible outcomes.

It seems obvious to me : successful immigration is all about a reciprocical effort. You want to move in the country? You're welcome, it's your right, and anyway we need immigrants. Just follow the basic principles of our society, like equality between men and women.

On the other hand, we'll allow you to keep with your traditions when we know they don't hurt anybody. Who cares if you're a construction worker and want to wear a turban instead of your helmet? If accidents happen, it's your bad, that's all - we have no reason to try and stop you, all it'd do is piss you off.

I see people being outraged being that kind of lame, tiny-ass accomodations (my example actually happened), but what in the world is wrong with it? It's freaking nothing, refusing stuff like that over and over just makes otherwise integrated immigrants just want to rip everyone's head off! It's just a moronic attitude.

These are all just small events, but when they add up, the total can be big.

Of course I'm not saying all accomodations are good. Just be reasonable. If it hurts the majority to please a small minority, it's probably not worth it and this time, should simply be refused. But if it doesn't even remotely affect the majority, like for my turban vs helmet example earlier, why in the world would the majority refuse at all?

One could say that with accomodation, it's either all or nothing, that due to jurisprudence and the accessibility of courts and all that, if a single immigrant is accomodated, then tons can ask for whatever accomodation they wish and obtain it. Okay. But then why blame accomodation itself instead of the weakness, the fault in our justice system? If unreasonable accomodation is possible because of an earlier unreasonable jurisprudence, and court can do nothing about it, then there's a problem with the court... isn't it evident? Why not simply clearly state it : all cases of accomodation have to be judged on a case by case basis, with jurisprudence playing little of a role, if not none at all? Anyway, accomodation is based on reasonability, but how in the world could such a blurry concept be defined in a single court case that subsequently is used as basis for all successive ones? It'd be much better to go case by case : no it wouldn't be perfect because reasonability would still remain very arbitrary, but that's something you can't avoid, and things would be much better. So why not?

Oh, and before someone points it out. Remember what I said : reciprocical effort. We're ready to accomodate. But respect the basis of our society, damnit. You spread hateful rhetoric about the occident? You don't accept to see men and women as equals? You absolutely want to outlaw people hopping on a single leg because your oddball religion or traditions claim it's "wrong" while being perfectly aware that very few people actually are affected by such a thing and that doing it would be unfairly affecting people's liberty? Well then you're an idiot, and you're not welcome. Move out. We don't want revolutionnary teens à la Française, but we don't want local-born terrorists like England, now do we?

Basically, assimilation without accomodation = bad. Accomodation without integration = bad. Integration and accomodation = good, and it leads to assimilation of further generations.

Phew, feels good to empty your bag, doesn't it?

[icekarma2752]

didnt realize you had it in you quebec...good stuff!!

[Knoss]

I fail to see the harm in the hijab. Besides Canada has been an imgrant nation since confederation and it has always resulted in evolution of our culture.

What about the turban case in the '80 s?

[tsotas]

Knoss Knoss:

I fail to see the harm in the hijab. Besides Canada has been an imgrant nation since confederation and it has always resulted in evolution of our culture.

What about the turban case in the '80 s?

I see harm in the hijab. It's a symbol of oppression of women. I see harm in thre KKK robes and in swastika armbands. The hijab is no different.

[Mr_Canada old]

tsotas tsotas:

If Canada isn't tolerant of Muslims we will be just like American. It is acti-Canadian to dislike Muslims.

LOVE A MUSLIM TODAY!!

Okay, I'm an Anti-American, but I will not go to the extent of saying that anything against America is Canadian.

It's not cool to show your hate of America by changing your own beliefs to make sure they are not American.

Anti-Canadian to dislike Muslims?

Are you a Propaganda Machine?

EDIT:

$1:

Guess I should have added the "tongue in cheek" emoticon. "blush"

Okay, good.

[Schleihauf]

I don't hate Muslims does that make me a bad person?

[Numure]

$1:

I’m not so sure. I think it comes as much from fighting for the French-Canadian identity with English-Canadians for centuries. When one lives in a community that prizes identity and community solidarity, when one places importance on identity and heritage because this is the only way to survive, then one learns not to compromise.

I think this part says it best.