[PostFactum]

They should, anyway It will not be so many separatists there.

[MacDonaill]

$1:

then explain to me why Qc gets over 3 times what any other province gets in transfer payments based on it's population?

You think it's petty that we have to pay a significant amount of money to maintain a shrinking percentage of the population.. I don't.

It's attitudes like yours that makes the MAJORITY of the country wonder WTF are we doing with these false frenchies in the first place.

http://www.carleton.ca/JMC/cnews/20102000/c2.htm

Well that wasn't the tune the majority you speak of was singing back in '95.

I really don't see what transfer payments to Quebec have to do with bilingualism in the Federal government. If you want to debate equalisation, we can do that, because in my opinion, it's a programme that shouldn't exist for Quebec or any other province for that matter.

The Fed is bilingual because it's in its best interest to be. If it wants to maintain legitimacy amongst francophone Canadians, particularly in Quebec, then it has to be able to operate in both languages. If one of the criteria for eligibility to certain federal positions is bilingualism and you're not bilingual, then I guess that's just too bad. I'm willing to bet you won't become an astronaut anytime soon either.

If you're unable to perform the job because you don't have the required skills, then you don't get the fuckin' job. That's how employment works. Shoulda paid attention in French class, loser.

7 million people in this country speak French, and that's not gonna change anytime soon. Get used to it.

[Proculation]

Tman1 Tman1:

Proculation Proculation:

All that I learned was from reading/writing on the Internet. YOU do no not have our racist laws that tell us to learn only french.

Did the majority of Quebecers vote for that government that created those racist laws?

No.

[Proculation]

uwish uwish:

"You're the one bitching about cereal boxes, so why don't you actually do the math, because I could personally give a rat's ass. How much extra does one pay for a cereal box with a second language printed on the other side? You seem to be worried about it, so you tell me why I should be.

And to be honest, even if there were no law making bilingual packaging mandatory, it still would be bilingual because when companies want to sell a product nationwide, they tend to not forget the 7 million potential French-speaking customers they could attract simply by putting half the packaging in their language.

Idiotic gripes like this are what really make English-Canadians seem like the world's most ridiculous nation: obsessed with the US, pissed off at Quebec, angry at the tragedy of half a cereal box being in French, a language almost all English Canadians study for about 8 years in public school but still can't read, speak, write or tolerate one bit. Is there any other nation as petty and pathetic as that? [i]Je pense que non."


then explain to me why Qc gets over 3 times what any other province gets in transfer payments based on it's population?

You think it's petty that we have to pay a significant amount of money to maintain a shrinking percentage of the population.. I don't.

It's attitudes like yours that makes the MAJORITY of the country wonder WTF are we doing with these false frenchies in the first place.

http://www.carleton.ca/JMC/cnews/20102000/c2.htm

Because we are cheap and we beg for money. We are not productive and we pay ourselves a lot of useless programs.

There I agree with you. Maxime Bernier was crucified on the public place for saying those things some weeks ago.

[uwish]

Mac..I completely agree with you on the transfer payments. They probably should not exist in the first place however, they are here. My point with mentioning it was Qc is getting MORE than it's fair share of $. Bilingualism itself is 'estimated' at costing 4 to 5 BILLION a year. This is for a shrinking francophone speaking population.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/s ... c05091ca60

If Qc's population is 7.7 million at the last census and if the % of francophone is accurate, then it is just under 6 million speak French and that number is dropping. In 25 years it will be less than 5 million, when I am in a old folks home it will be less than 4 million at current levels. So, should my kids pay the ever increasing cost of bilingualism for a shrinking percentage of the population?

What happens when my kids are retired? the official francophone population will be less than 1 million...do we still pretend French is the 2nd most predominant language? because more people will be speaking Chinese or Hindu in 25 years than French.

[Benn]

Proculation Proculation:

Are we forced to speak english ? YES.

Uh, no. There are gainfully employed unilingual French speakers in Gatineau just on the other side of the river from Ottawa. They get by just fine it seems not speaking English, so obviously people are not forced to learn it, like English speakers they chose to learn it, out of necessity.

[Benn]

uwish uwish:

If Qc's population is 7.7 million at the last census and if the % of francophone is accurate, then it is just under 6 million speak French and that number is dropping. In 25 years it will be less than 5 million, when I am in a old folks home it will be less than 4 million at current levels. So, should my kids pay the ever increasing cost of bilingualism for a shrinking percentage of the population?

What happens when my kids are retired? the official francophone population will be less than 1 million...do we still pretend French is the 2nd most predominant language? because more people will be speaking Chinese or Hindu in 25 years than French.

Its true, I think most cultural anthropologists would look at the situation here and tell you the province is fighting a losing battle. Natural forces and migration will determine the main language spoken in the end. They would however also tell you that loss of a language will mean loss of some culture, but lastly they would point out that all cultures evolve and change, its just a unstoppable force.

When people out here are forced to write the English on their cardboard garage sale signs smaller than the French for fear of being fined things have gone too far.

[MacDonaill]

uwish uwish:

Mac..I completely agree with you on the transfer payments. They probably should not exist in the first place however, they are here. My point with mentioning it was Qc is getting MORE than it's fair share of $. Bilingualism itself is 'estimated' at costing 4 to 5 BILLION a year. This is for a shrinking francophone speaking population.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/s ... c05091ca60

If Qc's population is 7.7 million at the last census and if the % of francophone is accurate, then it is just under 6 million speak French and that number is dropping. In 25 years it will be less than 5 million, when I am in a old folks home it will be less than 4 million at current levels. So, should my kids pay the ever increasing cost of bilingualism for a shrinking percentage of the population?

What happens when my kids are retired? the official francophone population will be less than 1 million...do we still pretend French is the 2nd most predominant language? because more people will be speaking Chinese or Hindu in 25 years than French.

I appreciate your crystal ball efforts, but allow me to add a couple of points...

The article in the Gazette you cited speaks of people whose mother tongue is French. However, even in Quebec, the people who have adopted French as a second language or who speak it as a usual, everyday common language has grown.

Almost all French-speaking immigrants from Africa or Haiti, for example, have French as a second language, but they are still Francophone whether or not the Canadian government chooses to recognise that.

In Quebec, French is the normal language of public communication no matter what your mother tongue happens to be. That's the point.

Your fucking money, you can keep it. The French language isn't kept alive by money.

The day the Federal government decides it will no longer offer service to the French-speaking citizens of this country or operate in French in any fashion is the day I will have given up on Canada. It will also be the end of Canada as we know it, because Quebec will separate and I'll be the first one in line to vote 'yes'.

Then the rest of you can be America-Lite for the rest of your happy lives.

Hopefully, before that happens, Canadians will get the picture that the federal government shouldn't be as big as it is in the first place. The day all non-essential Federal powers are repatriated to the provinces, the days of scrapping and bitching over money and influence will be over.

[Benn]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

Your fucking money, you can keep it. The French language isn't kept alive by money.

So the language police are all volunteers then? Taking time from their regular productive jobs to look for and fine people who violate the languages act?

If they are not meant to help keep the language alive then what the heck is their point?

No public money goes into cultural events out here? Yeah right!

I know for a fact French daycares get more spots subsidized than English speaking daycare does out here. If the language and money were not intertwined why bother even asking what language the daycare is in? If so few people want English schooling then why restrict (requires spending money on administration) who can go to it?

Come on, seriously, money plays a part in keeping the language alive, at least for longer.

[MacDonaill]

Benn Benn:

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

Your fucking money, you can keep it. The French language isn't kept alive by money.

So the language police are all volunteers then? Taking time from their regular productive jobs to look for and fine people who violate the languages act?

If they are not meant to help keep the language alive then what the heck is their point?

No public money goes into cultural events out here? Yeah right!

I know for a fact French daycares get more spots subsidized than English speaking daycare does out here. If the language and money were not intertwined why bother even asking what language the daycare is in? If so few people want English schooling then why restrict (requires spending money on administration) who can go to it?

Come on, seriously, money plays a part in keeping the language alive, at least for longer.

None of those things you have mentioned keep anything alive. L'Office québécois de la langue française, festivals etc. They may have the intention of keeping the language alive, but that is clearly not what they do - your own numbers only go to prove that.

French grew as a language in this country without any government money for the entire history of Canada before the Quiet Revolution. It's only people who fervently believe that if something is to be done, then the government is the only one that can do it who would ever attribute government money to the vivacity of the French language or lack thereof.

The only thing that keeps languages alive are the will to do so by the people who speak it. A language only dies when one generation decides to not pass on that language to the next. If Francophones want to make sure French stays vibrant in Canada, then all they have to do is keep speaking it, writing in it, singing in it, making movies in it. And yes, it takes money to produce things like books and films and whatnot, but it doesn't necessarily take your or even my money. So keep it.

Francophones will continue to demand that their federal government serve them in French, and if the Fed won't oblige, then they will have no reason to continue recognising that government. Then the rest of Canada can wave bye-bye to the only interesting part of the country. Your choice, I guess.

But I insist on underlining my belief that all of this bullshit has to do with bickering over money. If money were out of the picture, then there would be next to no squabbling between English and French. So the only real solution, IMO, is to eliminate unnecessary government spending. Let people spend their money on the things they feel are important in the language they want.

[Benn]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

-None of those things you have mentioned keep anything alive. L'Office québécois de la langue française, festivals etc. They may have the intention of keeping the language alive, but that is clearly not what they do - your own numbers only go to prove that.

-Francophones will continue to demand that their federal government serve them in French,

- and if the Fed won't oblige, then they will have no reason to continue recognising that government. Then the rest of Canada can wave bye-bye to the only interesting part of the country. Your choice, I guess.

-But I insist on underlining my belief that all of this bullshit has to do with bickering over money. If money were out of the picture, then there would be next to no squabbling between English and French. So the only real solution, IMO, is to eliminate unnecessary government spending. Let people spend their money on the things they feel are important in the language they want.

- I never said they were effective, but obviously someone thinks so since they pour money into them for that very reason.

- They should be able to be served in their language, no problem with that.

- Just like that eh? Good luck with that.

- I'm all in agreement there.

[Bodah]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

Then the rest of Canada can wave bye-bye to the only interesting part of the country

Aren't you living in Ontario ?

[Arctic_Menace]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

Then the rest of Canada can wave bye-bye to the only interesting part of the country. Your choice, I guess.

See, this is part of the problem for me. Quebecers have this sense of cultural superiority which aggravates the shit out of me. I've seen what the eastern half of this country has to offer, and heard about what it's like out west. It's interesting all over the place, so take your arrogance and shove it. You are helping neither your cause or anyone else by claiming your part of the country is the only interesting part. That's insulting to people from all over the country, and you expect them to be sympathetic to you? Please...

The issue isn't just about money, although it certainly is a huge part of it. Quebecers need to change their attitude just like the rest of Canada needs to change its attitude toward Quebec but this will probably never happen, least of all in my lifetime.

English Canada needs to stop getting angry over trivial french issues that really aren't harming anyone and not really inconveniencing anyone else either. Having said that, Quebec needs to stop being an arrogant bastard like you demonstrated above. If both sides can do that, it would do wonders for the stability of our country.

[uwish]

Well said Arctic, if Mac believe the only thing that keeps us different from the US is Qc then he is more delusional than I thought!

[Proculation]

uwish uwish:

Mac..I completely agree with you on the transfer payments. They probably should not exist in the first place however, they are here. My point with mentioning it was Qc is getting MORE than it's fair share of $. Bilingualism itself is 'estimated' at costing 4 to 5 BILLION a year. This is for a shrinking francophone speaking population.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/s ... c05091ca60

If Qc's population is 7.7 million at the last census and if the % of francophone is accurate, then it is just under 6 million speak French and that number is dropping. In 25 years it will be less than 5 million, when I am in a old folks home it will be less than 4 million at current levels. So, should my kids pay the ever increasing cost of bilingualism for a shrinking percentage of the population?

What happens when my kids are retired? the official francophone population will be less than 1 million...do we still pretend French is the 2nd most predominant language? because more people will be speaking Chinese or Hindu in 25 years than French.

Sorry to say but Canada IS A BILINGUAL COUNTRY. Get over it. There are a lot of people speaking french outside of Quebec. The PQ doesn't side with them because they are in the ROC but people like me want them to be able to be serve in french in a federal organization. You want a english only country ? There's the United States just below and the United Kingdom just across the ocean called Atlantic.

I'm being rude but it's people like you who do not understand that Canada was french before and that there are still people speaking french who create this animosity from the separatists.