[shockedcanadian]

Coach85 Coach85:

That attitude is part of the problem.

Allegations are just that. Allegations. This entire story lacks credibility due to the fact they went to the media, not police. If he did something, have the police involved.

We shouldn’t he happy that allegations can be the end of your career or life before anything is ever proven.

It’s not right.

This has been the M.O for many for a very long time, the police operate in the exact same manner, fraudulent and self serving.

Consider all the people who have had their mug shot shown on the front page of the Toronto Sun "accused" of a crime. Do you think the newspaper just found those photos and details of the accusations on the streets? it's one big racket in this country, bankrupting our communities and interfering with blind justice.

This was a November Surprise for Ontario. Dirty politics by so many who don't want Canada to change course, Ontario is always the focus.

As I've said, politically it doesn't matter, he wasn't going to win anyways. It would take someone with a strong voice and the willingness to get in the mud to take down this dependent province.

[Tricks]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Coach85 Coach85:

That attitude is part of the problem.

Allegations are just that. Allegations. This entire story lacks credibility due to the fact they went to the media, not police. If he did something, have the police involved.

We shouldn’t he happy that allegations can be the end of your career or life before anything is ever proven.

It’s not right.

^^^^

Normally I'd agree, but there are two issues.
1) They have conversations between themselves and Brown, so this isn't completely without evidence.
2) Taking things the police route, and the court route, can be incredibly traumatizing. I don't agree with the court of public opinion route, but I understand why they do it this way instead of through the courts.

[DrCaleb]

Tricks Tricks:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Coach85 Coach85:

That attitude is part of the problem.

Allegations are just that. Allegations. This entire story lacks credibility due to the fact they went to the media, not police. If he did something, have the police involved.

We shouldn’t he happy that allegations can be the end of your career or life before anything is ever proven.

It’s not right.

^^^^

Normally I'd agree, but there are two issues.
1) They have conversations between themselves and Brown, so this isn't completely without evidence.
2) Taking things the police route, and the court route, can be incredibly traumatizing. I don't agree with the court of public opinion route, but I understand why they do it this way instead of through the courts.

There is only 1 issue: Innocent until proven guilty.

As Coach points out, the mere accusation can ruin a person's life. And in the #metoo era, that's become doubly so.

[N_Fiddledog]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Personally, I don't care if he did it or not. I'm just glad he's gone.

Seriously Conservative Ontario, what's wrong with you? Why would you think a Prog calling himself a Conservative would be a good choice to run against a Prog calling herself a Liberal?

Do you not have any Conservatives in your Progressive Conservative Party? If not you should find some. That way in the next election you would have this thing we actual Conservatives call a choice.

Really guys. You can do better than Weepy Patty.

People like you are the reason the PC party has not been electable in Ontario. Browns progressive strategy was the only reason the PCs were a contender in this election. Nobody’s interested in Premier Trump it’ll never happen in Ontario.

Well, then you deserve what you've been getting under the Wynne regime.

[BeaverFever]

shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:

Conservatives don't have a chance in Ontario anyways, any more than a Republican has a chance in California.

The last governor of California was a 2-term Republican.Arnold Schwarzenegger, You may have heard of him.

[shockedcanadian]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:

Conservatives don't have a chance in Ontario anyways, any more than a Republican has a chance in California.

The last governor of California was a 2-term Republican.Arnold Schwarzenegger, You may have heard of him.

Yes, I realize this, that's why I said this is 2018, and he was a very unique case. NO GOP candidate would win in 2018, and they won't win for some time.

[CharlesAnthony]

Poor old Patrick Brown is learning-the-hard-way what intelligent Canuckletards figured out long ago: The job of the opposition is to make the puppets of the sitting government look good.
Flaherty's wife was anti-selected for a reason.

The Question: Did the financiers of Brown's leadership campaign make a mistake?

[BartSimpson]

Bill Maher weighs in on this general topic:

[shockedcanadian]

This strategist on TV suggested the interim would be a woman, he even suggested they might try to get Lisa Raitt to run, though that's a long shot as she is Federal, wishful thinking.

She would be a strong candidate, I respected her positions in the leadership race for the Conservatives, and I felt they chose the wrong leader for the conservatives.

By the way, this "not conservative enough" label is a misnomer. Far too many of these so-called "Conservatives" are not in any form, they try to reach out to people through emotion, not solid principles of accountable, small government and expansions of individual liberty.

Harper is a prime case in point of what goes wrong, a guy who could have been a great conservative based on some (though not all) reform principles, and what was his reflexive action? Build shiny prisons and put people like Vic Toews in the Public Safety and Julien Fantino in Veteran Affairs. What a bloody fool. The two former named politicians some of the worst in Canadian history.

[BartSimpson]

shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:

Far too many of these so-called "Conservatives" are not in any form, they try to reach out to people through emotion, not solid principles of accountable, small government and expansions of individual liberty.

Well said.

[Coach85]

Tricks Tricks:

Normally I'd agree, but there are two issues.
1) They have conversations between themselves and Brown, so this isn't completely without evidence.
2) Taking things the police route, and the court route, can be incredibly traumatizing. I don't agree with the court of public opinion route, but I understand why they do it this way instead of through the courts.

1. Having a conversation isn't a crime.

2. There's no excuse for doing it this way. If the issue is about doing things right and holding people accountable, this does nothing but push the 'movement' back. If there was criminal wrong-doing, it must go to the police.

Their names will come out and they should. They also need to be fully accountable for their actions, just as Brown is.

[martin14]

Coach85 Coach85:

2. There's no excuse for doing it this way. If the issue is about doing things right and holding people accountable, this does nothing but push the 'movement' back. If there was criminal wrong-doing, it must go to the police.

I said months ago that Ghomesi's trial was going to set new standards,
and the Harvey publicity would only make it worse.

Every man needs to dig down and be more careful now.
Every last one of us.

[Tricks]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

There is only 1 issue: Innocent until proven guilty.

As Coach points out, the mere accusation can ruin a person's life. And in the #metoo era, that's become doubly so.

Agreed. 100%. This also apparently isn't news to a lot of people. It's better this happened now rather than 4 months from now. Pick a new leader, wash yourself of this, and move on.

[Coach85]

martin14 martin14:

Coach85 Coach85:

2. There's no excuse for doing it this way. If the issue is about doing things right and holding people accountable, this does nothing but push the 'movement' back. If there was criminal wrong-doing, it must go to the police.

I said months ago that Ghomesi's trial was going to set new standards,
and the Harvey publicity would only make it worse.

Every man needs to dig down and be more careful now.
Every last one of us.

Careful doesn't matter.

You can be as careful as possible and one accusation, true or false, is enough to end your career without any due process.

[Tricks]

Coach85 Coach85:

Tricks Tricks:

Normally I'd agree, but there are two issues.
1) They have conversations between themselves and Brown, so this isn't completely without evidence.
2) Taking things the police route, and the court route, can be incredibly traumatizing. I don't agree with the court of public opinion route, but I understand why they do it this way instead of through the courts.

1. Having a conversation isn't a crime.

No, but being lewd to someone who isn't receptive to it in conversation can lend credibility that he did it in person. It's evidence, not proof.

$1:

2. There's no excuse for doing it this way.

Actually it is. Many people don't report these types of crimes because of how bad it is to go through the court process. They're crucified because of it. It's why the sexual assault reporting is so low up until now, they're ostracized and viewed as participants rather than victims. If you look at a country like Sweden, where victims aren't blamed for being part of the act, the reporting is much higher.

$1:

If the issue is about doing things right and holding people accountable, this does nothing but push the 'movement' back. If there was criminal wrong-doing, it must go to the police.

How are they supposed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this was done when it was 10 years ago? They can't reasonably do that, but if it is true, they're doing what they can to not have someone who sexually assaults people running this province. Again, he absolutely should be considered innocent until proven guilty, but I'd rather he resign as leader of the party on the chance that it's correct. We aren't Alabama. We aren't going to vote for him with this hanging over him, and that basically guarantees a liberal win.