[DerbyX]

lily lily:

If I felt like it, Derby, I could google and find all kinds of stories of women who received abortions with no counselling before or after. I could also find cases of women who pleaded with the doctors to stop, that they'd changed their minds, only to be ignored.

I'm not going to though, because deep down, you know those tales are out there too.


Your side isn't perfect, much as you're desperately trying to convey them as such.

Go ahead ahead and try. I will match story for story.

Women may have received abortions without counselling but where? At a planned parenthood clinic?

Did they walk into a clinic demanding an abortion and refused counselling?

No matter how you try and slice it, pro-life groups only care about preventing abortion and pro-choice groups support informed descions.

That is by the stated doctrine of each group.

[DerbyX]

Benoit Benoit:

The US have two borders to protect, we have only one.

It is the swift hand that catches the arrow and the slow hand that catches the fly.

[Benoit]

hwacker hwacker:

Proven the group is a bunch of money freaks, recorded.

The two very polite ladies were showing signs of impatience toward the man.

[DerbyX]

Benoit Benoit:

hwacker hwacker:

Deep down I know you’re full of it.

Proven the group is a bunch of money freaks, recorded.

And Dx wants us to believe him.

Like I said, full of it. You probably have brown eyes too.

The two very polite ladies were showing signs of impatience toward the man.

Really? Ever spare a thought to the number of people who have lost patients with you let alone hwanker?

Watch Jumper.

[Benoit]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Benoit Benoit:

The US have two borders to protect, we have only one.

...

When a society needs new recruits, it is less incline to accept abortion.

[DerbyX]

Benoit Benoit:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Benoit Benoit:

The US have two borders to protect, we have only one.

...

When a society needs new recruits, it is less incline to accept abortion.

A bird in the hand beats 2 in the bush.

Red sky in morning sailors take warning. Red sky at night, sailors delight.

[Benoit]

Benoit Benoit:

Benoit Benoit:

The US have two borders to protect, we have only one.

When a society needs new recruits, it is less inclined to accept abortion.

When a family is poor, it suggests to children to join the armed forces.

[Pseudonym]

lily lily:

If I felt like it, Derby, I could google and find all kinds of stories of women who received abortions with no counselling before or after. I could also find cases of women who pleaded with the doctors to stop, that they'd changed their minds, only to be ignored.

I'm not going to though, because deep down, you know those tales are out there too.


Your side isn't perfect, much as you're desperately trying to convey them as such.

That's all I was trying to argue for, but DX's failure to acknowledge such is silly. You simply cannot take the moral high ground and preach at people regarding the tactics of groups on their side when yours possesses the same problems in a different form.

[DerbyX]

Pseudonym Pseudonym:

lily lily:

If I felt like it, Derby, I could google and find all kinds of stories of women who received abortions with no counselling before or after. I could also find cases of women who pleaded with the doctors to stop, that they'd changed their minds, only to be ignored.

I'm not going to though, because deep down, you know those tales are out there too.


Your side isn't perfect, much as you're desperately trying to convey them as such.

That's all I was trying to argue for, but DX's failure to acknowledge such is silly. You simply cannot take the moral high ground and preach at people regarding the tactics of groups on their side when yours possesses the same problems in a different form.

No, you are trying to argue that 1 side is biased for abortion and 1 side is biased against.

I am explaining to your your error.

1 group advocates preventing abortion and the other group advocates the right to choose abortion, adoption, or having the baby, whatever is best for the women.

They are not misleading women into getting abortions while CPCs are misleading women when trying to prevent them.

You don't like it that CPCs have resorted to such tactics so you need to see that the other side uses those same tactics. They don't and its quite clear why.

[hwacker]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Pseudonym Pseudonym:

lily lily:

If I felt like it, Derby, I could google and find all kinds of stories of women who received abortions with no counselling before or after. I could also find cases of women who pleaded with the doctors to stop, that they'd changed their minds, only to be ignored.

I'm not going to though, because deep down, you know those tales are out there too.


Your side isn't perfect, much as you're desperately trying to convey them as such.

That's all I was trying to argue for, but DX's failure to acknowledge such is silly. You simply cannot take the moral high ground and preach at people regarding the tactics of groups on their side when yours possesses the same problems in a different form.

No, you are trying to argue that 1 side is biased for abortion and 1 side is biased against.

I am explaining to your your error.

1 group advocates preventing abortion and the other group advocates the right to choose abortion, adoption, or having the baby, whatever is best for the women.

They are not misleading women into getting abortions while CPCs are misleading women when trying to prevent them.

You don't like it that CPCs have resorted to such tactics so you need to see that the other side uses those same tactics. They don't and its quite clear why.

If they pushed not having abortions and people didn't have them because they were so convincing their funding dries up.


They posted $1.2 billion last year, stop with the BS DX. They are a money driven baby killing group.

[Benoit]

About 30 percent of human conceptions do not progress to full term (22 percent before becoming clinical pregnancies) and this creates a second arena for conflict between the mother and the fetus, because the fetus will have a lower quality cut off point for spontaneous abortion than the mother. The mother's quality cut-off point should also decline as she nears the end of her reproductive life and it may be significant that the offspring of older mothers have a higher incidence of genetic defects. Initially, the maintenance of pregnancy is controlled by the maternal hormone progesterone, but in later stages it is controlled by the fetal human chorionic gonadotrophin released into the maternal bloodstream, which causes the release of maternal progesterone. There is also conflict over blood supply to the placenta, with the fetus being prepared to demand a larger blood supply than is optimal for the mother (or even for itself, since high birth weight is a risk factor). This results in hypertension and, significantly, high birth weight is positively correlated with maternal blood pressure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parent-offspring_conflict

[DerbyX]

lily lily:

Which was exactly my point.

Your point was that both sides were using unsavory tactics and I doubt very much you will find true stories of women pleading with doctors to stop only to be ignored. Those stories are almost universally found to be made up my women being pressured into saying that so that anti-abortion groups can use it as propaganda.

In addition it is illegal for doctors to simply ignore the wishes of the patients. I cannot force somebody to give a blood sample.

As for not receiving any counselling before and after I again question the authenticity.

Did they request counselling and it was denied? Did they simply walk into a clinic and request an abortion and waved away counselling? Did they seek follow up counselling?

Did any of that happen at planned parenthood? Notice that we are primarily talking about the specific actions of CPCs vs Planned Parentood. It is quite clear which side provides a wide range of information and which side does not.

Again, its quite clear because the goal of each group is not the same.

[Pseudonym]

Would you consider accepting donations targeted at the abortions of blacks to be an "unsavory tactic?"

[Wally_Sconce]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:

Holy crap. Do you notice how putred and skanky this thread gets whenever Derby comes in to spread his left wing church of hate philosophy?

Only a couple of hours ago, we were all having a friendly conversation.

I am getting sick of you trolling this thread trying to stir up shit.

I did not infringe upon your debate with Brenda and I have had very productive debates with anybody who is not you.

You keep trying to stir up shit be bitching about me stirring up shit.

If you want to continue being an asshole all the time the just ignore me.

I ignore hwanker no matter what he says and if you aren't ever going to contribute meaningful points then don't respond to me at all.

On Yer Bike.

There's that problem personality thing of yours acting up again.

I have a question: Are you capable of participate on this forum for one day without personally attacking someone, or being rude and confrontational in the way you compose your messages?

For what it's worth, Have a nice day Derby. Perhaps if I write this often enough, you could turn down your attitude a bit.

regards
AR

[DerbyX]

Pseudonym Pseudonym:

Would you consider accepting donations targeted at the abortions of blacks to be an "unsavory tactic?"

Yes.

$1:

In 2007 Planned Parenthood in various states was subjected to a series of phone calls by students on the staff of a University of California, Los Angeles student-run magazine, The Advocate, run by a student pro-life organization. The calls included one in July 2007 to Planned Parenthood of Idaho offering a donation if it could be earmarked for abortions for black women because, "the less black kids out there the better." Answering the phone call, the organization's vice president of development and marketing said, "Understandable, understandable" and continued, "Excuse my hesitation, this is the first time I've had a donor call and make this kind of request, so I'm excited and want to make sure I don't leave anything out." Planned Parenthood of Idaho's CEO later issued a statement saying that the officer "violated the organization's principles and practices" and was suspended

A single incident where the guilty party was punished is not the same as an organization that deliberately lies, misleads, coerces, and outright violates patient rights as a matter of policy.

You can try and argue all you want but when you examine what the goal is for either group then it becomes clear.

1 is trying to prevent abortions and justify their actions on that basis. Hell you even have people on here justifying those tactics to stop abortions at any cost.

The other is a group who fundemental goal is to provide women with information to make a choice that best suits them. They are more then happy to help the women with adoption information as well as help if she decides to keep the baby. They also provide a non-judgemental support system if she decides to terminate the pregnancy and thats the sticker. It is entirely that they are providing a non-judgemental support system for abortion instead of a pressuring her decide not to have an abortion that anti-abortionists feel should be the only debate allowed.

They entirely want the abortion choice presented in the most mis-informed worst way possible not so the women will make what choice is best for her but so that she will make the only choice the anti-abortionists will tolerate.