Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:
Yeah and Canadians soldiers were killed in friendly fire by American troops as well. Whats your point?
A blue on blue incident is an accident and not systematic. Americans troops are not trained to intentionally kill allies. This is not a valid point.
Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:
There also will be corrupt Army members and police officers of course, just like there are corrupt police officers here and in America, and corrupt soldiers in America.
True, you must note the scale of said corruption in a war torn country that has had the stuffing knocked out of the infrastructure for decades on end with the only form of stability provided by religious zealots with their idea of a greater good is to commit suicide for 72 virgins is not the same as a NYPD beat cop on the take by a local dealer. It's just not the same thing. Our officers work with the ANA and ANP directly and have at times had to tell whole divisions they would be SHOT if they were to loot while under the over watch of our forces as such actions directly undermine the hearts and minds mission we are trying to win. These are the same people that are to be the police when we leave that are little more than a loose rabble of highwaymen extracting bribes like thugs from the civilians at gunpoint. No wonder the locals don't trust us when we give their actions a pass willingly or not. This is why Taliban are such a threat as this is a gang war and fought as such.
Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:
The Afghan Army and Police have some corrupt loyalists to the terrorist organizations. But most of them have been weeded out, others are hard to spot so I know theres still a few left. Once they do anything that will blow there cover, then there fucked.
Your appraisal of the situation is optimistic but unrealistic. To give you an idea of the size and scope of the problem
listen to this.
Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:
Building a country, and building a stable Army, and Police force doesn't happen over night. It takes a long time to accomplish, expecially when there is a bunch of terrorists running around destroying what you are trying to accomplish.
Quite true and the ultimate goal, though laudable, can not be done if the people of the land have no faith in the mission or are too scared to venture beyond the horizon of their own hamlet. The countries of Germany and Japan were all but smashed flat and even nuked but were able to rebuild even while being the front line of the cold war. Even divided in four segments Germany was able to join NATO as a full member only 10 years after the war and Japan was able to join the UN the following year. Do you see the rabble of opium growing warlords that run Afghanistan now doing the same in 50 years? We can build all the roads we want if they are only going to plant them with IED's when our back is turned our good works become Sisyphean rather than a Herculean task.
Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:
What would you rather happen Scape? Would you rather ditch Afghanistan, let the terrorists win?
Does the ends justify the means and can the ends be tainted via the degradation of the means? We have lost our share of good troops and will lose more no matter where we go even at home but to every noble effort and selfless sacrifice made does not mean we are cemented to the Afghani fate. Like a gambler chasing his losses he thinks he has a plan but ultimatly he is thinking with his heart and not his head. We need to set goals and objectives but we must also make sure that the Afghanistan we are creating isn't a monster. We must also be sure that the Allies we are standing with can be trusted to be there and not safe in their caveats and garrisons while we do the heavy lifting.
Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:
Let them re-take controll of afghanistan where they can re-open training camps, torture innoncent civilians, then eventually carry out more terrorist attacks on western nations? Have innoncent lives, and Afghanistan suffer all because we diddn't want to carry this out? or would you rather stay and accomplish what we went there for with a slim chance of what we built coming back to fight us.
The
current regime in power is already doing this. Our presence there is validating their barbarisms. Karzi has his hands full but that doesn't mean he is helpless. There are ANA troops that DO want to do right but are surrounded in a culture of corruption and must follow suit just to survive. It is so overwhelming that to even get basic civic permits requires multiple bribes to multiple officials. When corrupting is so vast as to be matter of course and a routine daily event then there is no hope of change from within. It requires a much stronger and direct mandate or none at all as the current one falls far short of tackling the problem. Fighting the enemy and fighting the corruption are equal demands and require equal attention as both ultimately breed the same poisons.
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