[QBC]

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

Down with the Chiefs.

Useless in the face of defending Native tradition.

You have it all wrong MrC... these are the modern chiefs, the people you are referring to are the hereditary chiefs, that actually have no real power anymore. It's all been usurped by the business chiefs that are making the tax free wages paid for by the tax payers of Canada. It's the hereditary chiefs that want to maintain the old ways and the traditional life of their people, more power to them. It's unfortunate that they have been shouted down by a pack of greedy system abusers who open up casinos on "sacred land".

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

It's unfortunate that they have been shouted down by a pack of greedy system abusers who open up casinos on "sacred land".

Well there's a lot of praying going on in those casinos.

[DrCaleb]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

It's unfortunate that they have been shouted down by a pack of greedy system abusers who open up casinos on "sacred land".

Well there's a lot of preying going on in those casinos.

Fixed that for you.

[CommanderSock]

Aid to Africa other than direct medical aid is useless. Actually it's harmful. The African nations that receive the least Aid are progressing the fastest today.


But helping our Natives here should be a priority. Our Natives don't have their own nation, and since their birthrates are so incredibly high (3rd world high), we better start tackling the problems before it turns into a demographic time bomb.

If our governments continues to dither and pass the buck, we'll face some serious problems in 50 years time.

[andyt]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

But helping our Natives here should be a priority. Our Natives don't have their own nation, and since their birthrates are so incredibly high (3rd world high), we better start tackling the problems before it turns into a demographic time bomb.

If our governments continues to dither and pass the buck, we'll face some serious problems in 50 years time.

What is your solution to helping our Natives? Foreign aid, since they are all "nations". How much does the govt spend per native - around 40k I believe, yet many still live in abject conditions.

[Brenda]

Well, 40k buys you a lot of booze...
(ahhh, ya gotta love the generalization )

[CommanderSock]

andyt andyt:

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

But helping our Natives here should be a priority. Our Natives don't have their own nation, and since their birthrates are so incredibly high (3rd world high), we better start tackling the problems before it turns into a demographic time bomb.

If our governments continues to dither and pass the buck, we'll face some serious problems in 50 years time.

What is your solution to helping our Natives? Foreign aid, since they are all "nations". How much does the govt spend per native - around 40k I believe, yet many still live in abject conditions.

I have no idea Andy. I simply know that their population is growing exponentially compared to the rest of Canada.

Bringing them will be inevitable. Getting the right incentives to do so will be tantamount.

I'm thinking we just simply start paying for them to directly attend schools, like Empiratis in Dubai. Every native card carrier could be guaranteed free education until the age of 26 or PhD. Access to loans for businesses. Direct cash transfers like a monthly allowance until the age of 30, similar to Brasil's Bolsa Familia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolsa_Fam%C3%ADlia).

There are options on the table, our politicians just need to stop being a bunch of pussies and implement them.

[EyeBrock]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Aid to Africa other than direct medical aid is useless. Actually it's harmful. The African nations that receive the least Aid are progressing the fastest today.


But helping our Natives here should be a priority. Our Natives don't have their own nation, and since their birthrates are so incredibly high (3rd world high), we better start tackling the problems before it turns into a demographic time bomb.

If our governments continues to dither and pass the buck, we'll face some serious problems in 50 years time.

Fuck me! I totally agree with you Sock!

[CommanderSock]

Sorry I can't edit my last comment so I'll add to it.

I seriously think we should be looking at Brazil's Bolsa Familia. Direct cash transfers to the poor with incentives such as mandatory medical checkups, child school attendance, and proof that recipients are looking for work or studying.

[andyt]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Sorry I can't edit my last comment so I'll add to it.

I seriously think we should be looking at Brazil's Bolsa Familia. Direct cash transfers to the poor with incentives such as mandatory medical checkups, child school attendance, and proof that recipients are looking for work or studying.

THere's just a piece about that in the Globe and Mail's Focus section. I have no problem with any ideas like that, but not race based. Either it goes to all Canadians who need it equally, or forget about it. We don't need race based programs in Canada.

[EyeBrock]

I think that education is the only way to sort out these issues. Unfortunately our native population doesn't seem to be able to help themselves as it stands. Education would be a long term but viable solution. Educated natives need to be a part of the solution.

I like the university credit idea. It will work as long as natives have to meet the same standards of education and employment as everybody else.

I think I've mentioned before that even at the Ontario Police College, natives take the same training but don't have to pass the exams. Any non-native failing the course won't get sworn-in but that's not the case with natives. Pandering and coddling hasn’t achieved anything since the early 1960’s, it’s time to rethink our strategy.

I also agree that while we have these festering problems with our native population, we should re-think ploughing more cash into foreign aid. Let’s sort out this issue first before we throw more cash down the Africa/Haiti/Pakistan aid toilet.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Well, part of that idea might get underway sooner than we know. Saw a news blurb on CP 24 I think it was about something like paying native school age kids to actually attend school.

[EyeBrock]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Well, part of that idea might get underway sooner than we know. Saw a news blurb on CP 24 I think it was about something like paying native school age kids to actually attend school.

I read something about that. It has merit if kids have other problems in making it to school but apparently this has had mixed results in several US school districts.

The whole native thing needs open and frank discussion free of all the usual meaningless rhetoric. The government needs to show some real leadership (for once) and start holding all sides accountable.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I think that education is the only way to sort out these issues. Unfortunately our native population doesn't seem to be able to help themselves as it stands. Education would be a long term but viable solution. Educated natives need to be a part of the solution.

I like the university credit idea. It will work as long as natives have to meet the same standards of education and employment as everybody else.

I think I've mentioned before that even at the Ontario Police College, natives take the same training but don't have to pass the exams. Any non-native failing the course won't get sworn-in but that's not the case with natives. Pandering and coddling hasn’t achieved anything since the early 1960’s, it’s time to rethink our strategy.

I also agree that while we have these festering problems with our native population, we should re-think ploughing more cash into foreign aid. Let’s sort out this issue first before we throw more cash down the Africa/Haiti/Pakistan aid toilet.

I don't agree with anything that's race based. If somebody needs financial help to go to uni, give it to them, no matter what the race. OTOH, there are plenty of natives who are doing well and can send their kids to uni on their own dime, same as everybody else.

The feds apparently spend less on native education on reserves per capita than provinces spend on their citizens. That should be changed. But money isn't the only barrier - good luck trying to get teachers to teach on reserves, with all the shit and abuse they take. And good luck trying to get natives to train their own teachers - natives say they want control over their own education, but then teach things like trapping and drum making. Nothing wrong with those as extras, but if natives don't learn the same basics as Canadians they'll never catch up.

Natives aren't going anywhere unless they become willing to integrate. Otherwise they'll always just be resentful outsiders complaining that we don't give them enough money. And most reserves are a joke - there's no possible economic activity there, so people living there will always be on welfare or working for the govt administering the welfare. Get rid of the reserve system.

[CommanderSock]

Andy, it needs to be race based. Specifically for natives.

The key is to get natives out from their secluded zones (reservations) into mainstream Canada. Get them to send their kids to school, get them to go to the doctor regularly to cut and prevent diseases and other illnesses, and ultimately get them working. This will bring their fertility rates in line with the rest of Canada within a generation or two (it did with Black Americans in the US).

Some natives could even find common ground with certain immigrants too. Hopefully we'll see higher rates of intermarriage between Native, whites, and recent visible minority immigrants. That would be a definitive bonus in helping them integrate.

The key is to get them out of there, and as Brock said, get them educated. We have to target natives specifically. It's not whites or blacks hiding in reservations brainwashed by greedy chiefs. And since we share one country with them, we can't keep ignoring the problem because it will bite our kids in the ass. I for one would rather see my grandson (assuming I have children) marry a native, not talk about killing or hating one.