[bootlegga]

$1:

TORONTO - Renowned left-wing American documentary maker Michael Moore on Thursday blasted Canada's position on U.S. war dodgers as shameful.

Speaking at the Toronto International Film Festival, Moore said Ottawa's refusal to allow U.S. soldiers opposed to the war in Iraq to find safe haven in this country betrays what the country once stood for.

"It is absolutely shameful how Canada has behaved toward those who have resisted this war," Moore said.

"It's not the Canada that we used to know."

Moore, who has produced several acclaimed documentaries, noted Canada was sympathetic to American soldiers who refused to fight in Vietnam in the 1970s.

Draft dodgers who fled the U.S. for Canada were allowed to stay here and many became productive citizens, even after they were allowed to return home.

"This country was so generous to those of my generation who did not want to kill Vietnamese and opened the doors," Moore said.

"They stayed here, most of them, after clemency was granted, raised families here, became Canadians and contributed."

Scores of American soldiers have deserted in opposition to the war on Iraq — some after deployment, others pre-deployment — and fled to Canada beginning more than six years ago.

None has been successful in seeking asylum in Canada, with bids for refugee status denied on the grounds that they would be prosecuted, not persecuted, if they returned to the U.S.

Their cases remain caught up in labyrinthine refugee hearings and various appeals.

Some who have gone back either voluntarily or after deportation have been jailed for desertion, but those who stay maintain they should not have to face punishment for opposing a war they call illegal.

The federal government has maintained the U.S. military is a volunteer defence force, in contrast to the forced draft that many young Americans faced in the Vietnam War era.

Still, the House of Commons, in a non-binding motion, called on the government in 2008 to allow those who refused to serve in Iraq on conscientious grounds to remain in Canada.

Bill C-440, currently before the Commons, would force the government to allow the deserting soldiers to apply for permanent residence in Canada.

Canada refused to join the U.S.-led war on Iraq, arguing it had no United Nations sanction.

Moore said Canadians are sympathetic to the war-dodger cause.

"Canadian people have a good heart and are a peaceful people," he said.

"They've always seen themselves as people that want to try to negotiate peace but they've gotten caught up in participating in war."

Moore's latest film, "Capitalism: A Love Story," released a year ago, looked at the financial crisis.

Other works include "Bowling for Columbine" and "Sicko."

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/1009 ... gers_moore

[Unsound]

Is this guy even relevant anymore? I don't really care what americans, whether left-wing or right-wing think about us.

[DeBoom]

Why does anyone pay attention to this guy?

What Moore doesn't understand is that there is a key difference between Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan. There isn't a draft today. The current bunch of war dodgers aren't avoiding being drafted they all joined knowing they could and probably would be sent to war. If they don't like it tough shit, they made a commitment and they now have to live up to it or face the consequences.

[stratos]

What he does not get is during Vietnam there was a DRAFT, in this current war all soilders are volentiers. Huge diffrence. One you are being made to join the military and go kill someone the other you chose to join the military with full knowlage that you might be called upon to kill someone.

When I joined I did a bit of research. The longest the USA has gone with out fireing a shot in anger is 7yrs. Odds are there would be a war of some sort during my 4yrs. We had 2 Panama and the Gulf War.

So i'm like wow you join the military but are shocked that you are being called upon to what you were trained for. Did no one listen to the oath they took or think about what it ment to join the military.

M.More has never been relevant. Don't recall the name of the movie where he bashed Bush all over the place but on the night of the election, where Bush won his second term, More's movie was on Pay Per View, a total of 4 house holds ordered the movie. Yes thats right in all of America only 4 houses spent money to watch his documentry/movie/bush bast fest.

[stratos]

DeBoom DeBoom:

Why does anyone pay attention to this guy?

What Moore doesn't understand is that there is a key difference between Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan. There isn't a draft today. The current bunch of war dodgers aren't avoiding being drafted they all joined knowing they could and probably would be sent to war. If they don't like it tough shit, made a commitment and they now have to live up to it or face the consequences.

You posted this while I was typeing mine.

We seem to be in total agreement

[Chumley]

IMO a person who voluntarily joins the military has no more right to refuse to serve his term than a person who becomes a doctor can refuse to save a life because he thinks the patient is undeserving of it.
I believe that is how it is with doctors, or am I wrong?

[andyt]

Chumley Chumley:

IMO a person who voluntarily joins the military has no more right to refuse to serve his term than a person who becomes a doctor can refuse to save a life because he thinks the patient is undeserving of it.
I believe that is how it is with doctors, or am I wrong?

The better analogy is that doctors are allowed to quit, and aren't thrown in jail if they do. They might get sued for breach of contract in certain cases, but that's about it.

To me, the army being able to jail people who want to quit doesn't make sense if it's a volunteer army. It's only half volunteer - ie you don't have to sign up, but once you do it's the same old army. Really what they should be doing is suing the quitters for breach of contract.

But, since these guys signed up voluntarily, I have much less sympathy for them than for the 'Nam dodgers and deserters. You know the rules, you know you're joining an organization that's all about killing people, and one, despite the denials, that hasn't met a war yet it didn't like.

[canuckns]

DeBoom DeBoom:

Why does anyone pay attention to this guy?

What Moore doesn't understand is that there is a key difference between Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan. There isn't a draft today. The current bunch of war dodgers aren't avoiding being drafted they all joined knowing they could and probably would be sent to war. If they don't like it tough shit, they made a commitment and they now have to live up to it or face the consequences.

I've been saying this for 6 years. They volunteered for military service, they were not drafted (forced into) military service, IT WAS THERE CHOICE TO JOIN. If they don't like it tough shit. Canada needs to send these cowards back.

[Chumley]

andyt andyt:

Chumley Chumley:

IMO a person who voluntarily joins the military has no more right to refuse to serve his term than a person who becomes a doctor can refuse to save a life because he thinks the patient is undeserving of it.
I believe that is how it is with doctors, or am I wrong?

The better analogy is that doctors are allowed to quit, and aren't thrown in jail if they do. They might get sued for breach of contract in certain cases, but that's about it.

To me, the army being able to jail people who want to quit doesn't make sense if it's a volunteer army. It's only half volunteer - ie you don't have to sign up, but once you do it's the same old army. Really what they should be doing is suing the quitters for breach of contract.

But, since these guys signed up voluntarily, I have much less sympathy for them than for the 'Nam dodgers and deserters. You know the rules, you know you're joining an organization that's all about killing people, and one, despite the denials, that hasn't met a war yet it didn't like.

Soldier and Doctor are polar opposites, so I suppose it is difficult to correlate.
What would happen to a doctor who let someone die deliberately because they thought the guy was a filthy piece of crap who deserved death? Would they sue him for breach of contract?

[andyt]

Chumley Chumley:

Soldier and Doctor are polar opposites, so I suppose it is difficult to correlate.
What would happen to a doctor who let someone die deliberately because they thought the guy was a filthy piece of crap who deserved death? Would they sue him for breach of contract?

Doctors may have a duty to assist, I'm not sure. Certainly the CMA would lift his license.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

What Moore truly knows about Canada could be written down on one side of a 3X5 index card. And there'd still be room left on it to write a short novel.

[RUEZ]

Don't you hate it when Americans poke their noses into our business?

[stratos]

andyt andyt:

Chumley Chumley:

Soldier and Doctor are polar opposites, so I suppose it is difficult to correlate.
What would happen to a doctor who let someone die deliberately because they thought the guy was a filthy piece of crap who deserved death? Would they sue him for breach of contract?

Doctors may have a duty to assist, I'm not sure. Certainly the CMA would lift his license.

Taking it one step further how would you feel about a Doc. who walks out in the middle of an opperation. He commited to the paitent to do the opperation but in the middle just quit. Its the same for the military they signed a contract for a set number of years of service. Then once they are called upon to apply the training they recived they just up and run away or quit.

In either case I'm all for jail time and punishment for both examples.

[EyeBrock]

Who cares what that fat git says.