[Vbeacher]

raydan raydan:

If you look at what we've built, we haven't made this world a better place. If anything, we've screwed it up pretty bad.

Really? We didn't build a better place? We have freedom, democracy, human rights, and a society in which no no starves and the state ensures the sick are taken care of. We don't die around age 30, we don't freeze in the cold and dark, we don't starve, and in every way, shape or form life today is IMMENSELY better than it was even a few generations ago.

[herbie]

$1:

Now mines in BC have to sign agreements with First Nations, for example, which typically include royalties to operate on their traditional territories.

The big new mine opened here a couple years ago. The natives got way, way more out of it than the town three times the size of the band.
Am I pissed the natives got more? Damned rights.
I intend to get my ass to the polls and vote out every useless incompetent incumbent on the town council come Oct.

[Vbeacher]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Vbeacher Vbeacher:

Ad hominems aside, I'm pretty sure expressing the desire to go punch a random Indian in the face is racist though.

Why is it lefties who populate every post with insults feel free to whinge when people return the favour?

I was expressing what emotions these kinds of attacks on Canada's history evoke among those who love this country, not an expression of intent.

Btw, look up racism in a dictionary. You're another guy who clearly has no understanding of the term other than a handy pejorative to fling at people.

[Vbeacher]

llama66 llama66:

It's true, we are trying to "make up" for some of the wrongs done, but the only people that can raise the FN's up from the pit they seemingly are in, is the FN community. At some point a conscious decision to move past these "past transgressions" and focus on a future where the FN community is seen as a positive segment of the Canadian community. I think the first step not blaming the Euros/White Man for every short coming. There needs to be responsibility accepted on both sides.
Just my take.

Amen. The problem, however, is the absurd description of these isolated little tribes of a few hundred or a couple of thousand people as 'nations'. How do you get agreement between 600 odd nations? Especially when the chiefs involved all benefit from the current system and would lose both power and wealth were it to change?

[Zipperfish]

Vbeacher Vbeacher:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Vbeacher Vbeacher:

Ad hominems aside, I'm pretty sure expressing the desire to go punch a random Indian in the face is racist though.

Why is it lefties who populate every post with insults feel free to whinge when people return the favour?

I was expressing what emotions these kinds of attacks on Canada's history evoke among those who love this country, not an expression of intent.

Btw, look up racism in a dictionary. You're another guy who clearly has no understanding of the term other than a handy pejorative to fling at people.

Yeah, pretty sure when you're all "I want to punch an Indian in the face" that would fit most definitions of racism. When you characterize natives as lazy drunks, that's racism. I don't think I'm really going out on a limb here.

[Zipperfish]

Coach85 Coach85:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I think the key is reconciliation and self-determination.

I'm sorry Zip, but this doesn't make any sense.

You need to drill down on why you think this is key.

The TRC is complete. We've started down the road with respect to the missing and murdered aboriginal women. Others recommendations have been acted upon. Some not started.

What's changed?

Even if all of the recommendations are met, how will this change anything? How will this pull our Native communities out of a cycle of drugs and alcohol? How will this make communities take more responsibility for their homes and their health?

While all this stuff is 'warm and fuzzy' and long overdue, I just don't see how any of this will help change the current conditions.

It is changing. It has changed a lot in my lifetime. Handouts are never going to work. Let the courts sort out the details of aboriginal rights and title, give the natives control over their traditional territories in accordance with the law. Dismantle the Indian Act. There are many hurdles, it's not easy, but it's worth the work in my opinion.

[Freakinoldguy]

The removal of this statue has stirred up another debate that people here seem to be missing. The statue removal isn't the only issue. It's the the fact that a group of "individuals" made the decision to have it removed without any public consultation under the guise of the "Truth and Reconciliation Commission's" supposed recommendations

$1:

The statue of Sir John A. Macdonald, Canada’s first prime minister, will be removed from the Pandora Avenue entrance to Victoria City Hall on Saturday, says Mayor Lisa Helps.

The move stems from the city’s reconciliation program involving local First Nations. Helps said a key part of reaching a decision on the statue was creating a “city family” to discuss the issue, rather than a formal task force. The group includes Helps, councillors Charlayne Thornton-Joe and Marianne Alto, and members of the Esquimalt and Songhees Nations.

Group members were asked by city council to come up with a course of action for dealing with the statue, erected in 1982.

“The family has made a decision that the statue will be removed,” Helps said.

Their decision will go to city council for approval today, she said.

“All council is being asked to do is to endorse the family’s decision,” Helps said.

https://www.timescolonist.com/news/loca ... 1.23393717

City Council was asked?

Can you imagine the outrage from the PC asshats if City Council had refused to bow to the will of the "family" and TBH the term " the family" sounds more like a plot from the Omega Man than from anything that even resembles a democratic society.

IIRC The Truth and Reconciliation Commision was to right past wrongs, not destroy someone else's culture just to make yourself feel better because. when that happens it's not about reconciliation but, retribution.

But, in the twisted world of Lisa Help's and the "family" they have become the sole arbitrators in Victoria of what is politically correct and what is to be done to bring the two cultures together.

So, until self appointed demigods who think they can rule by decree are brought to heel there will never be any real reconciliation because actions like this just inflame the situation even more and lead to an us vs them mentality on both sides.

[Thanos]

Sir John also believed in other things too:

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/colum ... -macdonald

$1:

Sir John A. Macdonald continues to vanish from the Canadian landscape.
The latest to jump on the politically correct bandwagon is Victoria, which has removed a statue of Macdonald from in front of its city hall. It is kind of ironic, actually, considering that Victoria is named for the Queen who ruled during the Macdonald era and to whom he swore fealty as a loyal Britisher.

Poor Sir John A. He is the unfortunate victim of a narrow 21st-century mentality that sees him as a one-dimensional figure, someone who laid the foundation for the Indian residential schools and made derogatory comments about the need to civilize the “savages.” Therefore, he must be erased from the landscape, as if he had no more importance than a stick figure drawn in chalk on a blackboard.

Pretty soon, there will be nothing left of him, and it will be generally believed that Canada simply materialized on its own out of thin air. Of course, for all that the current generation knows of history, it probably already seems that way.

Yes, Macdonald said and did those things for which he is being censured and banished today. But he also said, “There is no paramount race in this country … ” And he wanted First Nations people to have the right to vote. Yes, you heard correctly.

Writing in the National Post in 2015, Richard Gwyn, the author of a two-volume biography of Macdonald, said: “Macdonald wanted native people to gain the franchise, an act at that time of immense symbolic importance, without losing any of their rights under either the Indian Act or any of their treaties.”

It only took almost another 100 years before anyone as enlightened as he presided over this country.

Gwyn added: “By the manner of his extension of the vote to Indians — a model of integration as opposed to the discredited alternatives of either assimilation or apartheid — Macdonald was even further ahead, almost by a century. His initiative affecting indigenous people did not out-live him, though: in 1898 it was cancelled by the newly-elected Wilfrid Laurier. Thereafter, native people continued to be denied the vote, all the way to 1960 when John Diefenbaker restored Macdonald’s initiative.”

Macdonald also wanted women to have the vote. “He wanted to amend the act so that the ’Persons’ clause would read ’Persons means men … or women who are widows or unmarried’. He anticipated the famous ’Persons’ judicial decision of 1929 by almost half a century,” Gwyn wrote.

Macdonald explained his views this way: “I am strongly of that opinion, and have been for a good many years, and I had hoped that Canada would have the honour of first placing women in the position she is certain, eventually, after centuries of oppression, to obtain … of completely establishing her equality as a human being and as a member of society with man.”

This is the forward-thinking man whom the politically correct now desire to obliterate on the basis of a number of untoward remarks he made. His crime is that he acted like a product of his time, instead of our own. This is the visionary whose accomplishments British statesman Benjamin Disraeli praised as those of “a considerable man.”

Macdonald knew he had done things that were wrong. Like all of us, he was a complex human being with flaws and virtues.

“My sins of omission and commission I do not deny; but I trust that it may be said of me in the ultimate issue, ‘Much is forgiven because he loved much,’ for I have loved my country with a passionate love,” he said.

Forgiveness is not in the vocabulary of the politically correct faction, who fail to realize that without Macdonald, there might not even be a country called Canada today.

O Canada, how do you have the heart to do this to Sir John A. Macdonald?

I doubt that any of the members of the current Victoria city council know things like this because actual history isn't on course calendar for the activist "studies" they took at university. Not that it matters because the mob, err, "Family" has spoken. MacDonald was white, male, British, Christian, and hetero. Therefore he must be OBLITERATED!

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Yeah, pretty sure when you're all "I want to punch an Indian in the face" that would fit most definitions of racism. When you characterize natives as lazy drunks, that's racism. I don't think I'm really going out on a limb here.

Unless you can prove that wanting to punch an Indian in the face is due to a racist sentiment then kindly don't throw an accusation of racism around.

Unless, of course, you believe that all such notions are racist such as the leftist sentiment of punching a Nazi.

Characterizing Natives as 'lazy drunks' is also not racism when a growing number of Natives voice the same complaints. Some reserves and US reservations prohibit the sale of alcohol because they recognize this problem in their communities.

By the same token I've never thought that characterizing shanty Irish white trash as lazy drunks was racist simply for the fact that I know so many people who fit the bill.

What is actually racist is defending one group from any and all criticism just because of their race.

Meaning that if you won't defend Nazis from being punched in the face and you won't defend South Boston Irish lazy drunks from being called lazy drunks but you will do that for other people primarily because of their race then that's textbook racism.

[N_Fiddledog]

I've been having that argument with myself.

Am I a racist for my profiling?

Give you an example:

Over the years I've had bad luck with Somalis. Pretty much without exception. They come up to me smiling, launch the charm offensive then without personal exception the metaphorical knife is in my back.

I had one smiling fellow telling me his personal history on the way to my backstabbing. He told me how in the old country he was among the bureaucratic, administrative class that ran things.

So I got to thinking, perhaps this is environmental. Perhaps it's not so much a race as a class that's able to exploit our weak Canadian immigration system.

Whatever...I still have my profiled maxim. ~ Never trust a smiling Somali. ~

Is it racist? Does it matter? Works for me. Although, I imagine if I started pushing others to adopt it that would be a bad thing.

Might have helped Rob Ford though.

[llama66]

I think profiling is a survival mechanism we all have. Its our brain telling us to be wary because of a perceived wronging.

[herbie]

$1:

Unless you can prove that wanting to punch an Indian in the face is due to a racist sentiment then kindly don't throw an accusation of racism around.

Fer God's sake Bart, what the hell else do you think it possibly could be? You say that and you just specified the race of who you want to punch. Your not wanting to punch someone because of their political beliefs or because they offended you personally.
We're all talking English here and definitions can be found in books in any library in any English speaking country and the definitions don't change because you discovered you fit one and don't like it.
And what kid of twisted logic are you coughing up here to defend your statement? Calling Irish lazy drunks would be racist even if they're not a race they're a national identity pretty much the same thing. Not a goddam chance I'm gonna defend a Nazi from being punched in the face, because Nazis aren't a race. They're by definition and consensusfollowers of a disgusting political ideology to be erased.

[BartSimpson]

herbie herbie:

$1:

Unless you can prove that wanting to punch an Indian in the face is due to a racist sentiment then kindly don't throw an accusation of racism around.

Fer God's sake Bart, what the hell else do you think it possibly could be? You say that and you just specified the race of who you want to punch. Your not wanting to punch someone because of their political beliefs or because they offended you personally.
We're all talking English here and definitions can be found in books in any library in any English speaking country and the definitions don't change because you discovered you fit one and don't like it.
And what kid of twisted logic are you coughing up here to defend your statement? Calling Irish lazy drunks would be racist even if they're not a race they're a national identity pretty much the same thing. Not a goddam chance I'm gonna defend a Nazi from being punched in the face, because Nazis aren't a race. They're by definition and consensusfollowers of a disgusting political ideology to be erased.

Here's what was actually posted:

Vbeacher Vbeacher:

You know, I used to have so much sympathy for natives. But every time I see crap like this I want to go punch one in the face. Mind you, I have a lot more contempt for those whimpering, sniveling, progressives who want to spend their lives on their bellies licking the shoes of any native that happens to wander by.

The "Indian" thing was Zipperfish's writing, not Vbeacher's.

In context with the full quote what I see here is frustration with people who want to erase Canada's history.

It is not a racist statement.

And if I upset you by talking about the Irish when I have family in Ireland then you're going to have to get used to being upset, aren't you?

[Freakinoldguy]

But, would it be racism to want to punch someone in the face who just happened to be a Native?

[BartSimpson]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

But, would it be racism to want to punch someone in the face who just happened to be a Native?

Maybe we should ask the Winnipeg police what they think of punching natives in the face and whether or not that it's racist?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.3864614