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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:35 am
 


I haven't seen anyone make any statement that terrorism isn't a serious problem. What I have seen is a few people make the correct and logical conclusion that the best response to terrorism is proper police work and efficient use of military intelligence resources. Are there still those out there who believe, after the deaths of over 4000 US military personnel and most likely several hundred thousand Iraqi civilians, that the ham-fisted and brain-dead invasion if Iraq in 2003 was the best and most-likely-to-succeed option available to the US at the time?

This isn't any form of "coddling terrorists" or anti-war/anti-US buffoonery on my part. It's just an acknowledgement that in response to Sept 11 2001 the worst of all possible options was selected by the worst of all possible presidential administrations in the history of the United States, and it resulted in the worst of all possible outcomes for the locals in Iraq. I'd advise that no one let the illusion of the "success" of the Surge blind them to the reality that things may have only temporarily stabilized and that it can still get very bad over there.





PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:57 am
 


$1:

Is this an Eminem tune?


XTC


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:47 pm
 


Tracker Tracker:
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
It is ironic that the people who will demand solid proof and scoff at "scare tactics" when it comes to global warming will readily accept weak evidence and claim it's "better safe than sorry" when addressing terrorism.

Where do you live? Has the proof of terrorist activities not reached you yet?
I'm more apt to be mugged or hit by a car or get cancer than be blown up by terrorists in this country, and I'm not particularly worried about any of those other things, so why should I be worried about terrorists?





PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:00 pm
 


PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
So why are we surprised that they are targeting us? Seems like if we declare war on them we should expect they are not going to try to attack us.


The Cole, both WTC attacks, just to name a few, not sure Donnie but I am pretty sure they came up with the idea of war against us.



And they came up with this idea why? Because they saw your fat ass drinking draft beer watching a Yankees game at Don Cherry's one Sunday?

Of course not.

I'm not defending terrorism, but maybe if we recognize what the west has done to upset these people perhaps we can better understand the enemy.

The best military strategists study their enemies and understand their motivations and tactics.

If we pretend they hate us and attack us because we have women in the workplace and discos where you can drink all day and night long then we are fooling ourselves and we will never win this war on terror.

If we look at the exploitation of their governments...take for example Saddam who was fronted by the CIA then overthrown by the American military...then maybe we get an understanding of where this terrorism and resentment comes from.

Keep pretending that they hate us and the USA because we are beacons of freedom and all that bullshit ... there is no way we win because we vastly underestimate their motivations and desires.

If you truly want to beat these guys yet keep the west's status quo in Asia and the Mid east don't ignore and don’t apologise for suppressant their populations and subverting their governments. Accept that that is they way it has got to be and fight them with the full understanding that they are smart and intuitive and will look for opportunities to exploit our weaknesses.

If you want to win quit pretending we are fighting mindless retards. We are fighting real people who will kill themselves to get us to change our ways.

SO the outcomes are:

1) We change our direction and the terrorists have won and we lose the war on terror

2) We change our thinking about our enemy and really focus on winning this war

3) We keep treating our enemies like the people on the short bus and keep throwing money at a problem we don't bother to understand and therefore can never hope to overcome.

Read some history on Iraq and learn a little about the west's involvement in creating a state around tribes of nomads in the early 1900's. Might predate your assessment of who threw the first rock, let me tell you right now it was not 9-11 or the USS Cole.





PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:02 pm
 


Good post Donny. [B-o]


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:11 pm
 


Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
Tracker Tracker:
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
It is ironic that the people who will demand solid proof and scoff at "scare tactics" when it comes to global warming will readily accept weak evidence and claim it's "better safe than sorry" when addressing terrorism.

Where do you live? Has the proof of terrorist activities not reached you yet?
I'm more apt to be mugged or hit by a car or get cancer than be blown up by terrorists in this country, and I'm not particularly worried about any of those other things, so why should I be worried about terrorists?

Don't be worried than. Just sit back and relax.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:14 pm
 


Tracker Tracker:
Don't be worried than. Just sit back and relax.
I'm sure you'll be worrying enough for the both of us.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:38 pm
 


romanP romanP:
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
Alot of people in Canada seem to have Neville Chamberlin syndrome and figure if we appease or ignore them, they'll just go away happy. This denial mindset is what's going to get us in big trouble.


A lot of dumbasses seem to think that no time has passed since the second world war.


Thanks, I didn't know that denial had an expirey date????????????


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:15 pm
 


Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
romanP romanP:
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
Alot of people in Canada seem to have Neville Chamberlin syndrome and figure if we appease or ignore them, they'll just go away happy. This denial mindset is what's going to get us in big trouble.


A lot of dumbasses seem to think that no time has passed since the second world war.


Thanks, I didn't know that denial had an expirey date????????????


This comment doesn't make any sense, so I'll just continue on with my point.

Talking about "appeasement" has no place in this so-called "war on terror." There are no national boundaries being threatened or nations being conquered. There are no treaties involved, period. No one is giving in to any demands. Just because we aren't running around screaming that the sky is falling does not mean that nothing is being done. Bringing up Neville Chamberlain is, in fact, totally irrellevant, unless you can point to some sort of concession that has been given to any particular terrorist group just because they asked for it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:52 am
 


The attitude before 9/11 was Terrorism was seen for example Israel's problem not the United States even after United States interests were attacked around the World during the 90's it never hit home until 9/11..

Is it going to take Canada's own 9/11 for it to hit home on how serious the threat of Terrorism really is?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:31 am
 


romanP romanP:
Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:
Yup with all our immigration that we have, we are bound to let in some bad apples. You know I would really like to just say fuck Islam, mainly because the religion preaches nothing but hate and violence and a lot of the people who follow it act on what it teaches them. I cannot do that because not all muslims are hateful religous fanatics although there are so many of them you can't really tell the difference of whos not one, and who is unti'll they start preaching or acting.


That is exactly how you tell the difference. Most Muslims are not violent people. The only reason you would think that is because of a dumb stereotype that's largely been spread by the media.


Yes, from all there religous wars and religous killing. To there poor woman rights, which leads to stoning them if they ever sell there bodies for money. Which one case in Saudi Arabia, a woman got raped and she was whipped and served time for 'being a tease'.

Cutting off hands of young children for minor crimes, along with there hate speeches towards Jews, and Christians. Mostly jews. Along with there religion that does nothing but preach hate. Not only that but there religous control over there people. If you are muslim in a muslim country, and don't believe in Islam. You will be punished.

Along with there Taliban tactics of killing soldiers in a crowded area to ensure they kill a lot of innocent civilian and there new tactic of strapping bombs to little kids and making them walk to soldiers to suicide themselves.

Oh god what a stero-type, they are not violent at all :roll:. *cough* denial.





PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:20 am
 


Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:
romanP romanP:
Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:
Yup with all our immigration that we have, we are bound to let in some bad apples. You know I would really like to just say fuck Islam, mainly because the religion preaches nothing but hate and violence and a lot of the people who follow it act on what it teaches them. I cannot do that because not all muslims are hateful religous fanatics although there are so many of them you can't really tell the difference of whos not one, and who is unti'll they start preaching or acting.


That is exactly how you tell the difference. Most Muslims are not violent people. The only reason you would think that is because of a dumb stereotype that's largely been spread by the media.


Yes, from all there religous wars and religous killing. To there poor woman rights, which leads to stoning them if they ever sell there bodies for money. Which one case in Saudi Arabia, a woman got raped and she was whipped and served time for 'being a tease'.

Cutting off hands of young children for minor crimes, along with there hate speeches towards Jews, and Christians. Mostly jews. Along with there religion that does nothing but preach hate. Not only that but there religous control over there people. If you are muslim in a muslim country, and don't believe in Islam. You will be punished.

Along with there Taliban tactics of killing soldiers in a crowded area to ensure they kill a lot of innocent civilian and there new tactic of strapping bombs to little kids and making them walk to soldiers to suicide themselves.

Oh god what a stero-type, they are not violent at all :roll:. *cough* denial.


No more violent then the Cristians.Both sides preach hate,why do you think their still at war after all these years?

My gods better then your god and if you dont like it we will bomb you.


The whole thing seems mighty childish to me but religion seems to be the root of all wars and the cristians are just as bad as the Muslims.

Because allmost all wars have religious zealots running them maybe we should do this the fair way and list any religous org. as a terrorist cell.

Imagine for a moment if you will what it would be like if the people who ran the worlds most powerfull countries were atheists.
What would we fight about then?

I must be getting old or my old man taught me well cuz from Vietnam to present I havent seen anything changing in the war department and not much good come from all the needless deaths.


I think if there was a god he would look down on all of us and say "just fucking STOP"!
Quit useing my name to incite your petty hatreds and killing spree's.

I find it strange that some people will use someone who they cant see to justify going on a blood letting death spree.Both sides are guilty as sin.

For future wars we should have a set of strict rules to be set out.
1)reason for war
2)reason justified by facts that war will help the human race
3)war not caused by someones beliefs in someone who they cant see or in some oil companies profits(Haliburton)
4)As a last resort when war is to be declared there should be a clear reason made available to everyone thats free from bias and media manipulation.

Then let us vote on it.

Zipperfish can vouch for me when I say I have followed this whole war with Iraq from the get go.I was once against Bush,then supported him,and now against him again,I have followed and know allmost every page of PNAC before most even heard of it,lost 2 foster kids in shock and awe,and was a Bush supporter when these 2 kids got killed and even after their deaths I was still supporting his war on terror.
But not for long,once I saw through the bullshit and saw all the needless deaths for oil I started thinking for myself,I didnt want to be "owned" by Bush and company on their war on terror.

But I see lots here on this site are "owned" by bush.
and their kids are growing up watching folks get mutilated by roadside bombs or suicide bombers killing more kids.So they think its normal,part of life.
Thats the real sad part.

The war to end all wars was supposed to be just that,so what went wrong?

end of rant. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:48 am
 


Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
So why are we surprised that they are targeting us? Seems like if we declare war on them we should expect they are not going to try to attack us.


The Cole, both WTC attacks, just to name a few, not sure Donnie but I am pretty sure they came up with the idea of war against us.



And they came up with this idea why? Because they saw your fat ass drinking draft beer watching a Yankees game at Don Cherry's one Sunday?



I'm not defending terrorism, but maybe if we recognize what the west has done to upset these people perhaps we can better understand the enemy.

The best military strategists study their enemies and understand their motivations and tactics.

If we pretend they hate us and attack us because we have women in the workplace and discos where you can drink all day and night long then we are fooling ourselves and we will never win this war on terror.

If we look at the exploitation of their governments...take for example Saddam who was fronted by the CIA then overthrown by the American military...then maybe we get an understanding of where this terrorism and resentment comes from.

Keep pretending that they hate us and the USA because we are beacons of freedom and all that bullshit ... there is no way we win because we vastly underestimate their motivations and desires.

If you truly want to beat these guys yet keep the west's status quo in Asia and the Mid east don't ignore and don’t apologise for suppressant their populations and subverting their governments. Accept that that is they way it has got to be and fight them with the full understanding that they are smart and intuitive and will look for opportunities to exploit our weaknesses.

If you want to win quit pretending we are fighting mindless retards. We are fighting real people who will kill themselves to get us to change our ways.

SO the outcomes are:

1) We change our direction and the terrorists have won and we lose the war on terror

2) We change our thinking about our enemy and really focus on winning this war

3) We keep treating our enemies like the people on the short bus and keep throwing money at a problem we don't bother to understand and therefore can never hope to overcome.

Read some history on Iraq and learn a little about the west's involvement in creating a state around tribes of nomads in the early 1900's. Might predate your assessment of who threw the first rock, let me tell you right now it was not 9-11 or the USS Cole.


Well I challenge you to come and check out my ass Donny and then tell me it's fat, not likely. [but]

As for your first comments, you said words to the effect "we started the war". We were not involved in Afghanistan until 'They" decided that regular terrorist attacks were a good thing. As we are engaged in Afghanistan and this is a Canadian site, that is what I am discussing, our allies were directly attacked, our contribution is to work in Afghanistan, so I will not speak of Iraq, however as far as I am concerned they are oall one and the same. Having been on the ground and met religious fanatics not just Arab or Middle Eastern(also in Bosnia and Kosovo), trust me anybody willing to blow himself up IS a mindless retard. Your first nations people block highways and what not and you and I have debated that endlessly, but at the end of the day, I don't think ANY of them are stupid enough to blow themselves up over it, but that's another topic. Ever notice though that the guys in charge are not the ones blowing themselves up? Obviously it can't be that great, so mindless retards are recruited. As for changing our thinking and really winning this war, well unfortunately this countries tree hugers and followers of Osama Bin Layton would raise such a stink if we (NATO)were permitted to do what it took, (we are "PeaceKeepers" remember :roll: ?) it would not be pretty, but ufortunately there has never been a war that was. Can't have Canadian Soldiers on the offensive. Who goes into a war looking for a tie?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:33 am
 


So Pen, how does it feel to be running around shouting, 'Death to the saracens!! God is our King!? Are those red crosses you have painted on your tunics clashing with the cammo? After all, according to the 'experts' :roll: you are over there to prove that our version of God is better than theirs.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:37 am
 


Ziggy, have you actually read the Islam Bible? The Quran or w/e it was called. It's racist against Jews, it preaches hate about other religions and more slandering of the jews. It sais Islam is the only true religion, and that everybody that believes in something else is a infidel and all infidels should be killed. A lot in there just preaches pure bullshit hate, and violence.

I agree that Christians can be fanatics, and do the same thing. However I fail to see any modern terrorist groups or racism groups still active that belong to that religion. Islam has always had swarms of them, and they still do today.

Nowhere in the Christian bible to I see it calling jews monkeys, or whatever the racist insult that was used to describe what jews are in there bible or does it say that everybody who doesn't believe in there religion should be killed. During the Medieval Periods with the whole crusades. That was Christian fanatics acting up what they thought was 'right'. By spreading there religion, and taking the whole city and all that jazz. Which is over so many years ago. Visit any Muslim Country, and they are as medieval as it still comes now a days. With there law system, to there point of views and there actions.


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