[Brenda]

So maybe another stupid idea, but why are they trying to save a lost cause? Why not pour concrete in the reactors and be done with it? They are beyond saving now anyway...

[DrCaleb]

Brenda Brenda:

So maybe another stupid idea, but why are they trying to save a lost cause? Why not pour concrete in the reactors and be done with it? They are beyond saving now anyway...

Because it won't stop them melting down and releasing radiation for years. Once they are melted down, that's the solution. Until then, getting power reconnected to the cooling pumps will prevent them melting down, then they can be dismantled safely.

[Scape]

You should have a look at that Maddow link then. Tepco has admitted that recriticality is a possibility and if we abandon all efforts at cooling then it will become a probability.

[DrCaleb]

Scape Scape:

You should have a look at that Maddow link then. Tepco has admitted that recriticality is a possibility and if we abandon all efforts at cooling then it will become a probability.

How is that any different than what I said?

I tried to watch the Maddow link. I just can't stand that kind of sensationalized journalism.

[Spaniard]

They have problems getting water in the area, even an electrical line which is supposed to supply power to just one reactor. It was lost hope days ago with the explosions and fire. You still need to stop the radiation from leaking and pouring cement on it won't Help. For over 100++K individuals and children will start getting sick, and that land will take many moons before it can be farmed safely ect.

[Brenda]

So what is the use of a containment chamber then?

[Scape]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Scape Scape:

You should have a look at that Maddow link then. Tepco has admitted that recriticality is a possibility and if we abandon all efforts at cooling then it will become a probability.

How is that any different than what I said?

I tried to watch the Maddow link. I just can't stand that kind of sensationalized journalism.

Uh, the time stamp perhaps? I posted at the same time you did.

And as for the sensationalized journalism bit i'm sorry but I really have to call you on this. The New York Post having an all black front page with the title "PANIC!" is sensationalized journalism, Beck calling obamacare soicalism is sensationalized journalism but and this clown trying to 'dumb it down' is sensationalized journalism but nothing in that segment posted can even hold a candle to that level of tomfoolery. Don't get me wrong I am certian there is more then enought sillyness out there but her explination was succent and clear.

[/rant]

[Scape]

Brenda Brenda:

So what is the use of a containment chamber then?

Takes about 5 years for the rods to cool. Also, there is no where to transport them to as no one that would accept them so they have to be stored on site.

[Brenda]

Scape Scape:

Brenda Brenda:

So what is the use of a containment chamber then?

Takes about 5 years for the rods to cool. Also, there is no where to transport them to as no one that would accept them so they have to be stored on site.

I understand that. My question tho is, that if pouring concrete on it now is not of any help, then why is the biggest safety precaution (in case they melt) a concrete containment chamber?

The spent rods are not even IN a containment chamber... Why?

[Bruce_the_vii]

I've seen pictures of the spent fuel rod pool. The rods have a blue glow around them from the intense radiation. This lasts for a couple of years after which they can be moved to air cooled storage. My Uncle worked for AECL and he say the rods are "a piss pot of heat".

[DrCaleb]

Scape Scape:

Uh, the time stamp perhaps? I posted at the same time you did.

And as for the sensationalized journalism bit i'm sorry but I really have to call you on this. The New York Post having an all black front page with the title "PANIC!" is sensationalized journalism, Beck calling obamacare soicalism is sensationalized journalism but and this clown trying to 'dumb it down' is sensationalized journalism but nothing in that segment posted can even hold a candle to that level of tomfoolery. Don't get me wrong I am certian there is more then enought sillyness out there but her explination was succent and clear.

[/rant]

Ah, since your post was after mine, I thought 'you' referred to 'me'.

While her explanation may have been concise and accurate, every time I have watched her or anyone on similar shows, I found her to be grating, irritating and condescending. No personal insult intended, but I find that woman - and most others on US news channels - to be that way. Except Brook Alvarez.

And I agree that most news on this is sensationalized. A sad state of affairs. What they are doing is sowing panic that will last, and hold back, at least a generation.

[Brenda]

$1:

And I agree that most news on this is sensationalized.

The just mentioned on CNN that in Sacramento, CA, they measured higher levels of radiation, but we should NOT WORRY AT ALL!
When you talk about the level, it is not even that of a dental x-ray, so WHY spent the past 15 minutes talking about it???

Talking about sensationalizing. Annoys the living shit out of me...

[DrCaleb]

Brenda Brenda:

Scape Scape:

Brenda Brenda:

So what is the use of a containment chamber then?

Takes about 5 years for the rods to cool. Also, there is no where to transport them to as no one that would accept them so they have to be stored on site.

I understand that. My question tho is, that if pouring concrete on it now is not of any help, then why is the biggest safety precaution (in case they melt) a concrete containment chamber?

The spent rods are not even IN a containment chamber... Why?

Because they are 'spent'. They no longer are capable of sustaining nuclear fission, but are still radioactive and heavy metal poisons. They must be kept somewhere safe and cool until they can be transported to a breeder reactor for reprocessing.

Pouring concrete on them is not a precaution, it's a last resort. Doing that ensures they will leak radiation for hundreds of years. Cooling them, and reprocessing them means they will continue to produce electricity.

[Brenda]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Brenda Brenda:

I understand that. My question tho is, that if pouring concrete on it now is not of any help, then why is the biggest safety precaution (in case they melt) a concrete containment chamber?

The spent rods are not even IN a containment chamber... Why?

Because they are 'spent'. They no longer are capable of sustaining nuclear fission, but are still radioactive and heavy metal poisons. They must be kept somewhere safe and cool until they can be transported to a breeder reactor for reprocessing.

Pouring concrete on them is not a precaution, it's a last resort. Doing that ensures they will leak radiation for hundreds of years. Cooling them, and reprocessing them means they will continue to produce electricity.

Ok, that makes sense, but that still does not explain to me why the most important thing of a nuclear reactor is (except for water) a containment chamber for when it goes wrong.
I mean, when they melt, they are not spent, right? But they will melt in a concrete containment chamber, while that doesnt mean it won't leak. Because what you tell me, is that radiation leaks through concrete...

Why did they throw concrete over the Chernobyl disaster then? If it is not good enough? Is there nothing else?

[DrCaleb]

Brenda Brenda:

Ok, that makes sense, but that still does not explain to me why the most important thing of a nuclear reactor is (except for water) a containment chamber for when it goes wrong.

Why do you have airbags in your car? Same reason. You can't get a car with airbags during an accident. You also have to build a reactor with the worst possible scenario in mind.

Brenda Brenda:

I mean, when they melt, they are not spent, right? But they will melt in a concrete containment chamber, while that doesnt mean it won't leak. Because what you tell me, is that radiation leaks through concrete...

Why did they throw concrete over the Chernobyl disaster then? If it is not good enough? Is there nothing else?

We are talking two different things here. The rods in reactors 1-3 are not 'spent', they are fully viable. The rods in reactor 4 are 'spent', from all the years the plant has been in operation. Without cooling, the rods in reactors 1-3 will produce enough heat to turn the uranium metal in to liquid. Reactor 4 might as well, but that's because of the huge volume of rods there. They are encased in pellets of ceramic to hopefully prevent the liquid from escaping, but they could produce enough heat to also melt the ceramic. In which case, they would hit the floor of the containment chamber and spread out, and cool. The containment chamber would hold them long term, and without contaminating the surrounding environment.

Nuclear reactors produce heat by bringing bits of radioactive uranium close together, and letting them heat each other up. Remove them from close proximity, and they will cool and emit less radiation. That's why the floor of the containment chamber is so large. Take a glass of boiling water, and dump it on your kitchen floor, and see how quick it cools compared to one sitting on the counter. That is the purpose of the containment chamber. Filling the cores with concrete would prevent the rods melting all over the floor and would keep all the radiation from escaping anywhere far away, but they would still produce all that heat and radiation until they are 'spent'. The local environment would be screwed, but the West coast of North America would be 'safe'.