[BartSimpson]

Brenda Brenda:

Of course women are just as responsible for their pregnancies. Just not solely. Which was a little detail Bart forgot.

The problem with your snarky little assumption here is that men have no voice in whether or not a woman has an abortion.

Again, where the topic here is abortion there was really little point in my including men in the discussion and your doing so is not because you think men should be able to have a voice in abortion, but just because you're taking a poke at me.

Now, with that out of the way, can we get back on topic?

[fifeboy]

Thanos Thanos:

DU blocked me for saying ...

Holy Cow Thanos, I was just glancing at this and thought "how the hell can someone be blocked by Ducks Unlimited."

[Brenda]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Brenda Brenda:

Of course women are just as responsible for their pregnancies. Just not solely. Which was a little detail Bart forgot.

The problem with your snarky little assumption here is that men have no voice in whether or not a woman has an abortion.

They don't. Unless the woman wants to.

But you were not talking abortion, you were talking about that you are pro choice for a woman's use of contraceptives. NOT a man's use of it. Just a woman.

$1:

Again, where the topic here is abortion there was really little point in my including men in the discussion

You did not include them in your contraceptive speech.

$1:

and your doing so is not because you think men should be able to have a voice in abortion, but just because you're taking a poke at me.

You were not talking about abortion. You were talking about preventing pregnancies. Which, according to you, is a woman's job. Solely.

$1:

Now, with that out of the way, can we get back on topic?

Which topic? Preventing pregnancies? Which was the topic.

[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

I'm one up on you because I got booted off of both FR and Democratic Underground. I can't remember exactly but I think FR blocked me for being Canadian. DU blocked me for saying that the idea of giving a member of a visible minority two votes while a white person only got one, as some ivory tower "negroes revenge" psychopath/ideologue that Bill Clinton tried to appoint to some office back in the early 1990's had proposed, was about the most fascist thing I'd ever heard of.

The dual-bannings was one of many things that got me moving towards the center, that and being thoroughly disgusted at any given time by the NDP and the more lefty Liberals here at home. My antipathy for the fringes from both sides began getting fever-pitched about them.

Dual banning! I salute you, good sir!

That's the problem with the one-party sites is that they're so ideological that they can't handle anything that varies from their 'official' narrative, even if the dissent is constructive.

The thing about your antipathy for the fringes logically would lead you to avoid being a fringe ideologue. Just saying.

I guess the fact that both of us prefer this place to the others, despite our differences, means that there's still hope!

[BartSimpson]

Brenda Brenda:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The problem with your snarky little assumption here is that men have no voice in whether or not a woman has an abortion.

They don't. Unless the woman wants to.

Which means they don't.

Brenda Brenda:

But you were not talking abortion, you were talking about that you are pro choice for a woman's use of contraceptives. NOT a man's use of it. Just a woman.

One word: Sarchasm.

[Brenda]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Brenda Brenda:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The problem with your snarky little assumption here is that men have no voice in whether or not a woman has an abortion.

They don't. Unless the woman wants to.

Which means they don't.

You know that how? I did. And WE decided against it.

$1:

Brenda Brenda:

But you were not talking abortion, you were talking about that you are pro choice for a woman's use of contraceptives. NOT a man's use of it. Just a woman.

One word: Sarchasm.

No Bart, that is bullshit. You didn't even realize what you wrote.

[CanadianJeff]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

It may behoove you to know that certain late-term abortion procedures sometimes include a Ceasarean section to be performed and the child is actually then born and free of the mother before the abortionist kills it or lets it die. It's not legal everywhere but abortion advocates propose that it is 'ethical' and encourage it to be done anyway. Barack Obama, when he was a state senator in Illinois, voted against making this procedure illegal in that state.

This is not hype. It really happens and one doctor in Philadelphia got sent up for murder.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/philadelph ... d=12649868

If there are reports of something similar occuring in Canada then it should be investigated and vigorously prosecuted.

So I confront you with some actual facts backed up by real courts and you respond by resorting to fear tactics and speculation. Do you have any proof outside of blogs or Christian shock sites of any of this C section abortion nonsense?

There is a reason the Canadian people have spoken so loudly on this issue as has the vast majority of Europe.

[Lemmy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Just embracing the argument is all.

All too many abortion supporters get all offended when the suggestion is made that maybe they should have been aborted.

Your fallacy lies in your presumption that "pro choice" means "abortion supporter". That's not the case. I'm not pro-abortion. I detest the notion of abortion. I also detest obesity and cigarette smoking, but it's not my place to tell other people what to do with their bodies...and it's SURE AS HELL not the government's place to do so.

What I am is a realist. Prohibiting abortion doesn't prohibit abortion. All it does is drive it underground, just like prohibiting alcohol didn't stop people from drinking; it just meant more people drank unsafe/poisonous illegal liquor. We know what happens when abortion is made illegal: young girls go to back-alley quacks with coat-hangers.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What if your mother had thought about an abortion when she was pregnant with you? Aren't you glad that she didn't do it?

So why should you get a chance at life when some other unborn baby with every bit the same amount of potential in life as yourself ends up in a vacuum bottle?

You're right, lost life is a tragedy. Metaphysically speaking, I'd be pissed if I'd been aborted. But that choice is a family choice, a parent's (or parents') choice, not yours and not government's. And if the day comes when my daughter has to weigh that decision, I'll do whatever I can to convince her to have the child, but that choice will be made by her, not me, not you, and not the government. And if her mother and I aren't around or she chooses to make that decision without us, I sure as hell hope that SAFE abortion clinics are an option for her. I'm not much for prayer, but I pray that backward thinking, high-minded zealots like yourself never succeed in forcing teenage girls back into back-alley abortions.

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Just embracing the argument is all.

All too many abortion supporters get all offended when the suggestion is made that maybe they should have been aborted.

Your fallacy lies in your presumption that "pro choice" means "abortion supporter". That's not the case. I'm not pro-abortion. I detest the notion of abortion. I also detest obesity and cigarette smoking, but it's not my place to tell other people what to do with their bodies...and it's SURE AS HELL not the government's place to do so.

What I am is a realist. Prohibiting abortion doesn't prohibit abortion. All it does is drive it underground, just like prohibiting alcohol didn't stop people from drinking; it just meant more people drank unsafe/poisonous illegal liquor. We know what happens when abortion is made illegal: young girls go to back-alley quacks with coat-hangers.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What if your mother had thought about an abortion when she was pregnant with you? Aren't you glad that she didn't do it?

So why should you get a chance at life when some other unborn baby with every bit the same amount of potential in life as yourself ends up in a vacuum bottle?

You're right, lost life is a tragedy. Metaphysically speaking, I'd be pissed if I'd been aborted. But that choice is a family choice, a parent's (or parents') choice, not yours and not government's. And if the day comes when my daughter has to weigh that decision, I'll do whatever I can to convince her to have the child, but that choice will be made by her, not me, not you, and not the government. And if her mother and I aren't around or she chooses to make that decision without us, I sure as hell hope that SAFE abortion clinics are an option for her. I'm not much for prayer, but I pray that backward thinking, high-minded zealots like yourself never succeed in forcing teenage girls back into back-alley abortions.

Nothing more riveting than the pro-life arguments put forward by a pro-killing supporter.

Not sure what you think the discourse will accomplish but good luck with it.

[CanadianJeff]

I think for most pro life supporters at this point and very skys could open and an actual god could proclaim that women should have the right to choose and we would still be sitting at an impasse being yelled at by nuts for giving women too much freedom in making a reproductive choice.

For those who don't believe me try going to any hospital where a pro life demonstration is underway with actual numbers and data and see how receptive they are to even acknowledge the facts exist. All you will get is a bunch of "well this is what an aborted fetus looks like! LOOK AT IT!".

Seriously I dare you to try.

[Gunnair]

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

I think for most pro life supporters at this point and very skys could open and an actual god could proclaim that women should have the right to choose and we would still be sitting at an impasse being yelled at by nuts for giving women too much freedom in making a reproductive choice.

For those who don't believe me try going to any hospital where a pro life demonstration is underway with actual numbers and data and see how receptive they are to even acknowledge the facts exist. All you will get is a bunch of "well this is what an aborted fetus looks like! LOOK AT IT!".

Seriously I dare you to try.

Why?

Put your balls in this

...before you try and reason with an extremist.

[herbie]

Here's a link to the Post's graphic about abortion in Canada from 2009 statistics:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/07 ... s-in-2009/
Kind of puts a lid on the BS about the seriousness of the problem. 1.9% after 23 weeks. It doesn't happen often and the few that do are (statistically obvious) medically necessary.
I have a young daughter. I hope if she gets pregnant she won't have an abortion.
But it's her decision and no one else's. Not mine, and certainly not yours.
And I hope to hell she'll actually think about what's she's doing instead of instantly dismissing it as 'murder' because of some religious dogma.

[Thanos]

fifeboy fifeboy:

Thanos Thanos:

DU blocked me for saying ...

Holy Cow Thanos, I was just glancing at this and thought "how the hell can someone be blocked by Ducks Unlimited."

I was obnoxious enough back then that I probably would have given Ducks a few opportunities to ban me as well.

DU also = depleted uranium, which is fitting because Democratic Underground is just as toxic to anyone who has too much exposure to it.

[Unsound]

herbie herbie:

I have a young daughter. I hope if she gets pregnant she won't have an abortion.
But it's her decision and no one else's. Not mine, and certainly not yours.
And I hope to hell she'll actually think about what's she's doing instead of instantly dismissing it as 'murder' because of some religious dogma.

Is it ok to dismiss it as murder just because you think it's murder? Without the religion?

[Curtman]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

[s]fifeboy[/s] Curtman [s]fifeboy[/s] Curtman:

This one. The guy who thinks abortion protesters who assault people on the worst day of their lives are like Martin Luther King.

Assaulting women going to abortion clinics? I don't know why he's mad at them. If I were him, I'd be mad at whoever gave him that haircut.

That was me.. And I'd be pissed about the haircut too.

Unsound Unsound:

If you can't ignore them and deal with the decent reasonable people on the other side,in a decent reasonable manner, none of these issues or discusions will ever go anywhere.

Who was I supposed to ignore, the protesters who grabbed Corinne or the dickhead MP who hands out medals to people like that?