[DrCaleb]

FYI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Cashel_Orphanage

[housewife]

Scape Scape:

It doesn't stop there either, as I posted above the US is also doing an investigation and you can imagine just how many bodies they will find as well. I think it is the underlying reason as to why their reaction to critical race theory is so visceral as they have a guilty conscious.

It's not so much that I blame Harper as I hold him to account. Either by ignorance or malice we got here but it is still important that we at least acknowledge that fact. He who controls the past can write the future after all and there is most certainly a vein of denialism running throughout.

It am horrified at what the future will bring, as this is all over North America. Best to face it than run from it thou.

The US has some very militant native groups. Or at least they did my info is years out of date but given everything that has happened between then and now I can’t see them not being around still. They have an even worse history than we do.

I doubt Harper was ignorant or malice no idea what he believes. Regardless people in the government knew and didn’t want it to be common knowledge ever. I have been trying to tell people about it for years. It usually fell on deaf ears. Or gets the usual that doesn’t happen anymore. Or the one about me not growing up on reserve so I can’t know.

Facing it is going to be hard. I’ve always known. The law suit against a doctor for forced sterilization was a shock to this forum but not to me. I met a woman it happened to. She didn’t fight back at the time. We had a chat about trying to get people to believe what was still happening. My husband was shocked to realize his service dropped as soon as some saw me and the kids. There’s all sorts of stuff still going on look at the reception that the missing and murdered women got. I was told that it was probably their husbands or families that killed them. That wasn’t the point it was more about how the police handled it or not handled it. Could you imagine going to the police to report your child missing and them saying oh she’s just out partying then she ran away. Then finally starting to investigate two weeks after the fact. They didn’t even try they didn’t want to know anything about her they didn’t want to listen to her parents she had a good amount saved it was never touched. Runaways take things and their savings. After a few run ins with the police I have had over the years it’s not hard for me to imagine. I was on probation as a kid taught me to never ever go before a judge without a lawyer. Two of us got tickets for riding our bikes on the sidewalk. We ended up with different court dates but the same judge. Neither one of us had had any dealings with police before this. He was told to never do it again. He was white. I got probation had to have my bike inspected by police and a few other things. My probation officer was not happy as she had real criminals to deal with I saw her three times. This sort of shit is all around us and has been to one degree or another our whole life. Whether people didn’t know or didn’t want to know it’s always been there.

[bootlegga]

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

bootlegga bootlegga:

I'm at the point where we should just seize all of the Catholic Church's assets in Canada and sell everything off, then distribute it to First Nations, Metis and Inuit across the country.

Two points:

1) It wasn't just the Catholic Church that was involved in this shit. There were actually competitions between denominations over students and funding. The Anglican Church, to its credit, has apparently done more to apologies and try to make things right, according to the TRC summary. It provided numerous photos used in the report.

2) Define "assets". Are you talking about lands and institutions? Here in St. Albert the Oblates run a nursing home that cares for a number of elderly residents, including my own grandmother. They also maintain a fair-sized cemetery behind the church building.

What do you do with all the elderly residents in the home? Make them all move in with relatives? What do you do with the cemetery? Dig up all the bodies?

What about the support churches provide to homeless people? Who takes over that?

Who or what would take over all the other social functions churches are involved in?

By assets I mean all the religious assets - churches, bishop's residences, all the golden chalices and goblets and assorted shit they have inside the churches. Barring that, make them pay property taxes on all that prime land they own, that would work too.

Do you think those nursing homes are free for residents? They aren't - they get government subsidies and collect fees from residents, so they would probably be just fine on their own. I know this because my mother lived in one run by the Catholic Church for almost a year, until a much better privately-run home opened up for her...and the fees were the same at both facilities.

Regarding their charities, they can survive and go on helping people, they would just have to fundraise like other charities do (see Boyle Street Community as an example).

From pedophile scandals to the residential school system to their social conservative policies - and that's just from the last century or two (nevermind all the horrific shit they perpetrated in the first millennium of their existence), the Catholic Church has shown itself to be irredeemable IMHO.

Other Churches have stepped into the 20th or even 21st century and have at least tried to atone for some of their past wrongs, as well as adapted to current societal norms, but the Catholic Church, like parts of Islam, is still rooted in beliefs from centuries ago.

It's time for it go the way of the dodo.

[JaredMilne]

bootlegga bootlegga:

By assets I mean all the religious assets - churches, bishop's residences, all the golden chalices and goblets and assorted shit they have inside the churches. Barring that, make them pay property taxes on all that prime land they own, that would work too.

Do you think those nursing homes are free for residents? They aren't - they get government subsidies and collect fees from residents, so they would probably be just fine on their own. I know this because my mother lived in one run by the Catholic Church for almost a year, until a much better privately-run home opened up for her...and the fees were the same at both facilities.

Regarding their charities, they can survive and go on helping people, they would just have to fundraise like other charities do (see Boyle Street Community as an example).

From pedophile scandals to the residential school system to their social conservative policies - and that's just from the last century or two (nevermind all the horrific shit they perpetrated in the first millennium of their existence), the Catholic Church has shown itself to be irredeemable IMHO.

Other Churches have stepped into the 20th or even 21st century and have at least tried to atone for some of their past wrongs, as well as adapted to current societal norms, but the Catholic Church, like parts of Islam, is still rooted in beliefs from centuries ago.

It's time for it go the way of the dodo.

Okay, revoking the tax-exempt status I can agree with. I'd still prefer to keep churches around so they can continue with activities like maintaining cemeteries and doing charity work. And as housewife alluded to, the sudden move in some circles to change names and shut down churches won't necessarily accomplish anything and may not even be what Indigenous people even want. Whoever torched those church buildings on those B.C. reserves on Indigenous People's Day merely caused additional pain for the Native churchgoers.

As for the nursing homes, I'm not keen on forcing elderly residents to move unless there's absolutely no other choice. It was really difficult bringing Grandma out to my mother's place for a family get-together last weekend, and she could only stay for a couple of hours.

[DrCaleb]

Saskatoon Catholic cathedral covered with paint after discovery of 751 unmarked graves

[housewife]

It’s too easy to lay the blame on the church. They are losing followers they will eventually have to change or they will be no more. But regardless of the church there were lots of others who knew what was going on. It has been spoken of for years. It started at a time that the government via Indian agents had to give a pass for people to leave. They controlled everything and I do mean everything. These positions seemed to draw a certain type or made them with absolute power that carried on despite the position losing power over the years. Even after the position was renamed and people were given more control of their lives people still referred to them as Indian agents. Hell even Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles referred to Indian agents. When they are rounding up the bad guys for the fight. He says he wants every muggers murders Indian agents don’t remember the list do remember they were on it. The government got multiple reports from multiple agencies. Then there were the people who were hired to track the runners. They had to know given what some of the kids did to not be there. This is a multi level problem the church is just the easiest target. It was an open secret that people didn’t want to know about or wanted to be in the past. Attacking the church isn’t going to help and may hurt as some find comfort in following the church. It’s our place to rip that from them.

[DrCaleb]

You are right that the church is not the only thing to blame. But the Catholic Church is the one most reluctant to own up to what they did. Most of the others have.

[housewife]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Saskatoon Catholic cathedral covered with paint after discovery of 751 unmarked graves

This one doesn’t need words.

I’m glad it didn’t turn violent when the cops showed up

[housewife]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

You are right that the church is not the only thing to blame. But the Catholic Church is the one most reluctant to own up to what they did. Most of the others have.

Yeah but bring the church down in Canada isn’t going to help get the records. I would love to know what all they have hidden away considering the removal of large amounts of stuff from the new world that was sent there. There are so many rumours about what might be there. The possibility of things is endless. It’s also damming even viewed through the eyes of history. We have to pick our battles and I don’t think we can as of yet win this one. The world is changing the Catholic Church is losing ground they aren’t changing. That might help in the end but I don’t see it happening any time soon.

[llama66]

the Fed's should request a federal warrant for the records or in an ironic twist use the RCMP to raid the churches for the records.

[housewife]

llama66 llama66:

the Fed's should request a federal warrant for the records or in an ironic twist use the RCMP to raid the churches for the records.

That would be nice. And would stop them from destroying records or issueing redacted messes!

[DrCaleb]

Catholic group to release all records from B.C. and Saskatchewan residential schools

[housewife]

So there’s hope but that’s one order and what about a third of the schools. Here’s hoping we can get info on the rest of the schools! And then there’s the Indian hospitals. And the experiments.

[housewife]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3941673/

A horrific part of history is only whispered about. I doubt it was the only one

[Thanos]

Gravestones at Cowessess weren't just "removed", they were apparently deliberately bulldozed:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoo ... -1.6080732

$1:

Saskatchewan RCMP say they'll work closely with the Cowessess First Nation if officials decide to pursue charges over the apparent bulldozing of its grave markers.

This week, Cowessess Chief Cadmus Delorme announced the discovery of 751 unmarked graves in the community.

"We will continue to work together with the FSIN and Cowessess First Nation leadership as next steps are considered and they determine if or how they wish the RCMP to be involved," Saskatchewan RCMP wrote in an emailed statement Friday to CBC News.

This week, both Delorme and the Archdiocese of Regina said they were told the site was bulldozed by a priest in the 1960s following a dispute with the former chief.

I'm not sure what word would be appropriate to describe doing something like that. Vandalism doesn't even come close. Doing that on purpose is IMO effectively identical to the Nazis in World War Two destroying Jewish graveyards and defiling the headstones by using them as paving stones for their soldiers to march over.