[BeaverFever]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And if you want to kill rich people then keep in mind that there's more rich Democrats and liberals than there are Republicans and conservatives.

I don't think that's true at all and I'm willing to bet that you made that up. The Republicans are the party that's always pandering to the wealthy and publicly exalting them as gods who walk among us while making life as miserable as possible for poorer Americans

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And if you want to kill rich people then keep in mind that there's more rich Democrats and liberals than there are Republicans and conservatives.

I don't think that's true at all and I'm willing to bet that you made that up. The Republicans are the party that's always pandering to the wealthy and publicly exalting them as gods who walk among us while making life as miserable as possible for poorer Americans

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/07/opin ... -rich.html

$1:

Democrats now depend as much on affluent voters as on low-income voters. Democrats represent a majority of the richest congressional districts, and the party’s elected officials are more responsive to the policy agenda of the well-to-do than to average voters. The party and its candidates have come to rely on the elite 0.01 percent of the voting age population for a quarter of their financial backing and on large donors for another quarter.

https://capitalresearch.org/article/party-one-percent/

http://freebeacon.com/politics/more-dem ... ress-list/

http://www.investors.com/politics/edito ... publicans/

http://newamericangazette.com/2011/01/t ... democrats/

$1:

An analysis of the Top 20 Richest People in America (from Forbes Top 100) reveals that a full 60% are actually Democrats. Furthermore, if you look at it from a “family” point of view and not as individuals, that ratio widens even further to: 25% Republican / 75% Democrat.

[rickc]

Thanos Thanos:

They aren't despised for losing. For generations after the war ended they were held in the highest regard in the Union states for their bravery and military prowess. They aren't remembered fondly for slavery, the Klan, Jim Crow, and the outsized strangledhold the states of the former Confederacy now have on all of American national politics. In terms of actually "building" a country, the representatives of the states in the Confederate congress couldn't even build a proper supply chain overseen by a single central authority to ensure their own armies were kept properly fed and armed, that's how un-cooperative they were even with each other. "States rights" to the bitter end, indeed.

It's a shame that Reconstruction failed so badly. In hindsight the South should have been ruled under Union military governance until at least the outbreak of World War One. That level and duration of re-education and attitude adjustment was probably the minimum amount necessary to ensure that the control of the plantation nobility was ended once and for all, and that the belief system they held was as thoroughly burnt out of the South in the same way that occupation was required to ensure that Nazism and imperialism were burnt out of Germany and Japan respectively after World War Two.

What the hell are you talking about? The reconstruction a failure? Maybe in the bizzarro world. There is no part of the U.S that is more true to the red white and blue than the American south. The southern states make up 44% of the U.S. Armed Forces. Try burning an American flag in the southland and see what happens to you. A crowd would gather and stomp your ass into a mud hole. When the cops show up and hear what happened, they would take YOU to jail. If you burned that flag in California, a crowd would gather to cheer you on. They would probably give you lighter fuel and matches as well. Colin Kaepernick was born in WI, but moved to California at age four. His California left wing indoctrination would lead him to sit during the playing of his National Anthem. He is ashamed of his country. A country that pays him millions to play a fucking game. I don't see any other countries offering him millions to play a game, do you? Jim Brown, who was born and raised in Georgia, considers himself a patriot. He does not desecrate his National Anthem, or his flag. He was a million times better of a football player than Kaepernick will ever be. The Civil War happened. It is a fact of life. Blackbeard has a statue in N.C. No one is saying he was a swell guy. He was what he was. It happened. Taking down his statute will not change anything.

The US does not have a confederate statute problem. We have a whiny, self entitled, left wing dipshit problem. We have a whole generation of self entitled assholes that never learned any manners and think that they have the right to destroy anything that "offends" them. I say they need a good ass kicking. I say the good people of the southern states need to put together some community watch programs for these statues. Have some good old boys at the beck and call. Minutemen if you will. Anyone caught trying to damage the statues in any way gets a good old fashioned ass beating. Perhaps passing blood in the urine, and eating through a straw for a few months will teach them some manners and civility that they obviously never learned as a child.

[BartSimpson]

rickc rickc:

Thanos Thanos:

They aren't despised for losing. For generations after the war ended they were held in the highest regard in the Union states for their bravery and military prowess. They aren't remembered fondly for slavery, the Klan, Jim Crow, and the outsized strangledhold the states of the former Confederacy now have on all of American national politics. In terms of actually "building" a country, the representatives of the states in the Confederate congress couldn't even build a proper supply chain overseen by a single central authority to ensure their own armies were kept properly fed and armed, that's how un-cooperative they were even with each other. "States rights" to the bitter end, indeed.

It's a shame that Reconstruction failed so badly. In hindsight the South should have been ruled under Union military governance until at least the outbreak of World War One. That level and duration of re-education and attitude adjustment was probably the minimum amount necessary to ensure that the control of the plantation nobility was ended once and for all, and that the belief system they held was as thoroughly burnt out of the South in the same way that occupation was required to ensure that Nazism and imperialism were burnt out of Germany and Japan respectively after World War Two.

What the hell are you talking about? The reconstruction a failure? Maybe in the bizzarro world. There is no part of the U.S that is more true to the red white and blue than the American south. The southern states make up 44% of the U.S. Armed Forces. Try burning an American flag in the southland and see what happens to you. A crowd would gather and stomp your ass into a mud hole. When the cops show up and hear what happened, they would take YOU to jail. If you burned that flag in California, a crowd would gather to cheer you on. They would probably give you lighter fuel and matches as well. Colin Kaepernick was born in WI, but moved to California at age four. His California left wing indoctrination would lead him to sit during the playing of his National Anthem. He is ashamed of his country. A country that pays him millions to play a fucking game. I don't see any other countries offering him millions to play a game, do you? Jim Brown, who was born and raised in Georgia, considers himself a patriot. He does not desecrate his National Anthem, or his flag. He was a million times better of a football player than Kaepernick will ever be. The Civil War happened. It is a fact of life. Blackbeard has a statue in N.C. No one is saying he was a swell guy. He was what he was. It happened. Taking down his statute will not change anything.

The US does not have a confederate statute problem. We have a whiny, self entitled, left wing dipshit problem. We have a whole generation of self entitled assholes that never learned any manners and think that they have the right to destroy anything that "offends" them. I say they need a good ass kicking. I say the good people of the southern states need to put together some community watch programs for these statues. Have some good old boys at the beck and call. Minutemen if you will. Anyone caught trying to damage the statues in any way gets a good old fashioned ass beating. Perhaps passing blood in the urine, and eating through a straw for a few months will teach them some manners and civility that they obviously never learned as a child.

Fuck. Yeah.

[Thanos]

Not a single bit of that has anything to do with what I was trying to talk about.

[rickc]

Thanos Thanos:

Not a single bit of that has anything to do with what I was trying to talk about.

Well what are you talking about? You said reconstruction was a failure, like somehow there is still an anti-American current running through the American south. I was born and raised in the south. I seen my share of confederate battle flags growing up. I spoke out against them numerous times in a thread years ago on this forum when we had the shootings in Charleston S.C. I said then and still believe today that those flags have no business being flown on any government installations. It is the flag of a defeated army. That quote of Robert E. Lee that you have used several times lately, I used in that thread. The south lost the civil war. I am glad the south lost the civil war. I was born and raised in the south, and I joined and served in the AMERICAN armed forces. No one in the south is trying to restart the civil war. Its over. Its history, and so are those statutes. When I was stationed in Germany, I visited Dachau. Is it offensive? You damn right it is!!! Should it be torn down? Hell no!! Why should we give more ammo to the deniers? As long as those camps exist, there is actual, indisputable proof that it happened. Long after the last man that fought in WW2 has gone, we will still have proof that it happened.

The fact of the matter is that people do not have the right to go around desrtoying things that "offend" them. Lots of things offend me on a daily basis. I suck it up. I bite my tongue. I soldior on. Robert E Lee gave up everything for Virginia. He gave up his career in the U.S. military. He risked his life, liberty, and fortune for Virginia. He might not be an American hero, but he damn sure is a hero of Virginia. He is probably the most famous Virginian ever. If Virginia had voted to stay in the union, we would be studying today about how great a general Lee was as the victor for the union. He was all about Virginia. Virginia above all else. Those statues have been there for over 100 years now. They have been there a long time. Now all of a sudden out of the blue (that Trump is President) people are "offended"? Too fucking bad!!! If those statues are so racist then why was no one "offended" by them for the eight years that we had a black man sitting in the White house? (sound of crickitts chirping). Now that Trump is sitting in the White house, everyone is offended by everything. I call bullshit. The left started this horseshit, and now its out of control. Its spreading like wildfire around the globe. You need to be manning up and stopping this bullshit now (while you still can) in your own country, not worrying about confederate statues in mine. The U.S. may very well be on the path to another civil war, but this one has nothing to do with the north and the south. It has everything to do with the right and the left. I have no doubt that the good people of the south will be on the right side as well as the winning side this time around.

[BeaverFever]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And if you want to kill rich people then keep in mind that there's more rich Democrats and liberals than there are Republicans and conservatives.

I don't think that's true at all and I'm willing to bet that you made that up. The Republicans are the party that's always pandering to the wealthy and publicly exalting them as gods who walk among us while making life as miserable as possible for poorer Americans

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/07/opin ... -rich.html

$1:

Democrats now depend as much on affluent voters as on low-income voters. Democrats represent a majority of the richest congressional districts, and the party’s elected officials are more responsive to the policy agenda of the well-to-do than to average voters. The party and its candidates have come to rely on the elite 0.01 percent of the voting age population for a quarter of their financial backing and on large donors for another quarter.

https://capitalresearch.org/article/party-one-percent/

http://freebeacon.com/politics/more-dem ... ress-list/

http://www.investors.com/politics/edito ... publicans/

http://newamericangazette.com/2011/01/t ... democrats/

$1:

An analysis of the Top 20 Richest People in America (from Forbes Top 100) reveals that a full 60% are actually Democrats. Furthermore, if you look at it from a “family” point of view and not as individuals, that ratio widens even further to: 25% Republican / 75% Democrat.

Your first link simply says Republicans have historically been the party of the rich but in recent years Dems are catching up, thanks to nouveau-rich tech moguls who tend to be liberals. Note that it still says 59% of Forbes 400 contributions go to Republicans.


Your second link only looks at contributions in one election cycle year, 2013-2014, not even a presidential election year, to say that Dems slightly edged out Republicans.

Your third link is just incorrect. The wealthiest member of congress according to most recent data is Republican Representative Darrell Issa, California, with an average net worth of $448 million.

https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first- ... lionaires/

The truth is party affiliation doesn't matter, the US is a plutocracy and it's a shameful fact that the majority of your congressmen and senators are millionaires or multimillionaires. The average net worth of Dems and Republicans in congress is the same at about $1 mil

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2014/0 ... lion-plus/

$1:

Of the 50 richest families, 28 mainly donate to Republicans and only seven contribute mainly to Democrats. Not all families stay on the same side of the political spectrum — 15 support candidates from both parties....




....
Are America's Richest Families Republicans or Democrats?

Jul 9, 2014

One caveat: Some of these family fortunes are shared among dozens or even hundreds of people, so we were only able to track political donations of a subset of prominent members.

Here are the political affiliations of America’s 50 richest families, ranked according to wealth:


1. Walton – Republican

2. Koch – Republican

3. Mars – Republican

4. Cargill-MacMillan – Republican

5. Johnson (Fidelity) – Republican

6. Hearst – Republican

7. Cox – Democrat


8. Pritzker – Both

9. Johnson (S.C. Johnson) – Republican

10. Duncan – Republican

11. Newhouse – Democrat

12. Lauder – Both

13. Du Pont – Republican

14. Hunt – Republican

15. Ziff – Both


16. Johnson (Franklin Templeton) – Republican

17. Busch – Both

18. Dorrance – Both

19. Mellon – Republican

20. Brown – Both

21. Carlson – Both

22. Fisher – Republican

23. Butt – Democrat


24. Rockefeller – Both

25. Gallo – Democrat

26. Marshall – Republican

27. Bass – Both

28. Meijer – Republican

29. Bechtel – Republican

29. Reyes – Republican


29. Simplot – Republican

32. Rales – Both

33. Rollins – Republican

34. Scripps – Republican

35. Crown – Both

36. Stryker – Democrat

37. Smith – Republican

38. Pigott – Republican


39. Shoen – Both

39. Simon – Democrat

41. Lefrak – Both

42. Hughes – Republican

42. Phipps – Republican

44. Kluge – Both

44. Tisch – Democrat


46. Johnson (Johnson & Johnson) – Republican

47. Marriott – Republican

48. Kohler – Republican

49. Perot – Both

50. Barbey – Republican

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.forbes. ... crats/amp/

[martin14]

Thanos Thanos:

Anyway, I'm much nastier than you'll ever be on this subject.

1) ethnic separation generally leads to stability and some kind of peace, therefore I would have kicked all the whites out of Mississippi,
2) the plantation system would have been broken forever, with the land being seized by the federal government and auctioned off in parcels no larger than fifty acres; small farms would be encouraged,
3) participation and membership in the KKK or any other similar terrorist group would be grounds for summary execution under military occupational law
4) the police forces of all major Southern cities would be comprised of federal troops only;
5) the Southern state legal and prison systems,
6) the Southern states and counties would be permanently banned

To accomplish all this the Constitution would be re-negotiated and re-written as required. Southern representatives will not be allowed to participate in either the debates or the voting of the revision process.


PS: I am NOT a liberal but I clearly am a monster of an entirely different sort.

You have become much nastier in just about every topic.

Your list:


ROBERT

MUGABE


He wasn't a liberal, either.

[rickc]

CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:

John A. MacDonald was a man, with a vision, that became the driving force behind bringing Canada to life, which he did. Was he perfect? No. He was a human being, like the rest of us, so he definitely wasn't perfect. He made mistakes, like a lot of us do. He was an alcholic, and might not have been the most diplomatic when it came to the 'natives'.

That having been said, he championed the Canadian vision, and turned it into reality. He had enough guts and courage to create a nation like no other. Where others just saw vast open land and hostility, MacDonald saw opportunity. To now try to erase traces of the man who make us what we are through his dream, is WRONG. If it wasn't for men like him, we likely wouldn't be here right now bickering over things like this.

If we do not learn from history, we will be doomed to keep repeating it and learning nothing in the process. For people to want to erase everything and pretend it didn't happen is sheer human ignorance and arrogance. What have we become as a society to want to do things like this just because of a percentage of malcontents that are never happy no matter what gets done? What have we become as a society to want to live inside of a bubble-wrapped box and become shielded from the world?

Sad times indeed.

-J.

Sorry I am late to the party. Yours is probably the best response for this thread. Well said sir!!!

[JaredMilne]

Okay, I'm really late to the party on this one, but here are my two cents...

On the one hand, I agree with you guys in what you're saying about the statues. The really disturbing thing for me is the implication that we shouldn't be allowed to take pride in any of our history and heritage. What I admire Macdonald for is his ability to get so many people from different, disparate groups to work together towards a common goal, and find common ground among their different perspectives. A lot of this shows up in the BNA Act, particularly the balance between what the Lower Canadian Francophone and many of the Maritime Fathers of Confederation wanted, and what Upper Canadians like Macdonald himself wanted. Macdonald was also very supportive of Francophone rights both inside and outside Quebec, aptly observing that if they're treated "like a nation", they will respond generously.

But at the same time, though, can we even blame so many Indigenous people for being so pissed off and frustrated about this? When so many Indigenous peoples' communities and education are unfunded, when they face racial and sexual violence when they listen to people who say they should move to the cities (including getting beaten to death with a goddamn trailer hitch), when their suggestions for changing things, which they've made over and over again are constantly being ignored, when they're accused of being on easy street and not having to pay any taxes, that they all get free education and everything else, all while they're spat on for being stupid and inferior, and they're told to "just get over" the PTSD, alcoholism and other issues that have resulted from the residential schools and Sixties Scoop, so much of which can be traced back to the ideas and actions that Macdonald represented, why is it such a shock?

I like Gitxskan advocate Cindy Blackstock's suggestion, that of including the negative aspects of peoples' legacies along with their positive ones on the statues. More significantly, I think a lot of these calls would die down if big issues, such as equal funding for education and childcare, implementing recommendations on dealing with police, sexual and other violence, fixing the Indian Act and land recognition in accordance with our own courts, which have said that many of the government's actions violate our own laws and Constitution, were addressed.

To quote Wilfrid Laurier, Canada is the inspiration of my life. Without Canada, I have nothing, and I am nothing. But true patriot love means not just taking pride in our accomplishments and successes, but also taking a hard look at where we fucked up and fixing it. These are the bigger issues we should be talking about.

[housewife]

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

Okay, I'm really late to the party on this one, but here are my two cents...

On the one hand, I agree with you guys in what you're saying about the statues. The really disturbing thing for me is the implication that we shouldn't be allowed to take pride in any of our history and heritage. What I admire Macdonald for is his ability to get so many people from different, disparate groups to work together towards a common goal, and find common ground among their different perspectives. A lot of this shows up in the BNA Act, particularly the balance between what the Lower Canadian Francophone and many of the Maritime Fathers of Confederation wanted, and what Upper Canadians like Macdonald himself wanted. Macdonald was also very supportive of Francophone rights both inside and outside Quebec, aptly observing that if they're treated "like a nation", they will respond generously.

But at the same time, though, can we even blame so many Indigenous people for being so pissed off and frustrated about this? When so many Indigenous peoples' communities and education are unfunded, when they face racial and sexual violence when they listen to people who say they should move to the cities (including getting beaten to death with a goddamn trailer hitch), when their suggestions for changing things, which they've made over and over again are constantly being ignored, when they're accused of being on easy street and not having to pay any taxes, that they all get free education and everything else, all while they're spat on for being stupid and inferior, and they're told to "just get over" the PTSD, alcoholism and other issues that have resulted from the residential schools and Sixties Scoop, so much of which can be traced back to the ideas and actions that Macdonald represented, why is it such a shock?

I like Gitxskan advocate Cindy Blackstock's suggestion, that of including the negative aspects of peoples' legacies along with their positive ones on the statues. More significantly, I think a lot of these calls would die down if big issues, such as equal funding for education and childcare, implementing recommendations on dealing with police, sexual and other violence, fixing the Indian Act and land recognition in accordance with our own courts, which have said that many of the government's actions violate our own laws and Constitution, were addressed.

To quote Wilfrid Laurier, Canada is the inspiration of my life. Without Canada, I have nothing, and I am nothing. But true patriot love means not just taking pride in our accomplishments and successes, but also taking a hard look at where we fucked up and fixing it. These are the bigger issues we should be talking about.

[martin14]

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

But at the same time, though, can we even blame so many Indigenous people for being so pissed off and frustrated about this? When so many Indigenous peoples' communities and education are unfunded,

Nope nope nope.

The leaders and people shouting the loudest over this are ALWAYS stupid white leftists.

The are deciding and whining about all this nonsense, not even asking
the Indians if they are upset about a statue. The lefties don't care,
their patriarchal racism deems them superior enough to speak on behalf
of these poor oppressed groups.


Just look at any of the leftist riots it is always 90% young very stupid Marxists.

[JaredMilne]

martin14 martin14:

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

But at the same time, though, can we even blame so many Indigenous people for being so pissed off and frustrated about this? When so many Indigenous peoples' communities and education are unfunded,

Nope nope nope.

The leaders and people shouting the loudest over this are ALWAYS stupid white leftists.

The are deciding and whining about all this nonsense, not even asking
the Indians if they are upset about a statue. The lefties don't care,
their patriarchal racism deems them superior enough to speak on behalf
of these poor oppressed groups.


Just look at any of the leftist riots it is always 90% young very stupid Marxists.

Yep yep yep.

I don't know how closely you follow social media, including the comments on news websites, CBC discussion shows or Twitter feeds, but I've seen plenty of Indigenous activists and even elected MPs who feel strongly about this. One commentator condemned Macdonald, but criticized the ETFO and the media for focusing on all this when Indigenous people are trying to get attention on other things, like the harassment of the Kentners in Thunder Bay, the underfunding of their institutions, and the MMIWG commission's problems, and essentially stealing all the focus.

[martin14]

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

Yep yep yep.

I don't know how closely you follow social media, including the comments on news websites, CBC discussion shows or Twitter feeds, but I've seen plenty of Indigenous activists and even elected MPs who feel strongly about this. One commentator condemned Macdonald, but criticized the ETFO and the media for focusing on all this when Indigenous people are trying to get attention on other things, like the harassment of the Kentners in Thunder Bay, the underfunding of their institutions, and the MMIWG commission's problems, and essentially stealing all the focus.

Well that's because actually solving problems isn't something for the leftists to do.

They are happy to keep the patriarchal racsim going, and just jump
around with false hysteria about what is socially hip at the moment.
Then, when the moment is gone, it's forgotten, are so are the Natives.

[bootlegga]

xerxes xerxes:

raydan raydan:

I'm sure that if we looked closely at every historical figure, good or bad, we'd find at least one thing about him that at least one person is outraged about.

Maybe we should just outlaw history.

Exactly. No one is a saint and expecting people to be is the height of naive. Yeah Sir John A did some shitty things to natives. He was also a booze hound. BFD.

^ This.