[DerbyX]

Like this?

Or this?

[bootlegga]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Even when he's on "my" side I disagree with Rex. Lambaste Harper all you want, but the reality is that a coalition would waste no time filling those seats with their choices. Also, a Liberal Senate would just frustrate the efforts of a Conservative House. I'm not a Conseravtive (no! really?), but they are the elected government and I don't want an unelected Senate hampering their efforts.

I agree with everything you've said but what does Harper accomplish with this, other than breaking his own party platform?

Senate majority? Nope.

Senate reform? Nope.

Frankly, it's lose, lose for Harper. This plays right into the Liberals hands if there's another election.

[Chumley]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Even when he's on "my" side I disagree with Rex. Lambaste Harper all you want, but the reality is that a coalition would waste no time filling those seats with their choices. Also, a Liberal Senate would just frustrate the efforts of a Conservative House. I'm not a Conseravtive (no! really?), but they are the elected government and I don't want an unelected Senate hampering their efforts.

I agree with everything you've said but what does Harper accomplish with this, other than breaking his own party platform?

Senate majority? Nope.

Senate reform? Nope.

Frankly, it's lose, lose for Harper. This plays right into the Liberals hands if there's another election.

Perhaps by pushing the senate reform through he is getting what he wants, an elected senate. If this is the case, whether he wins or loses against the Liberals next time his goal has been accomplished and maybe that is all that matters.

[DerbyX]

Chumley Chumley:

Perhaps by pushing the senate reform through he is getting what he wants, an elected senate. If this is the case, whether he wins or loses against the Liberals next time his goal has been accomplished and maybe that is all that matters.

He isn't pushing senate reform though. He is simply doing what he said he wouldn't and exactly what he complained about.

Alot of people seem to think that the triple-E senate is the end all be all but pulling it off seems nothing more then some people pushing their belief on others.

Alot of people want the senate scrapped. Alot of people think our system is fine as is. Alot of people think elected senators will be any different then appointed ones.

Considering alot of those people have nothing but hate and scorn for some of the duly elected govts they have no reason to believe this.

Reform the senate? If its OK to do that then why do alot of those very same people vehemently oppose reforming our FPTP electoral system with something like PR or STV?

[Chumley]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Chumley Chumley:

Perhaps by pushing the senate reform through he is getting what he wants, an elected senate. If this is the case, whether he wins or loses against the Liberals next time his goal has been accomplished and maybe that is all that matters.

He isn't pushing senate reform though. He is simply doing what he said he wouldn't and exactly what he complained about.

Alot of people seem to think that the triple-E senate is the end all be all but pulling it off seems nothing more then some people pushing their belief on others.

Alot of people want the senate scrapped. Alot of people think our system is fine as is. Alot of people think elected senators will be any different then appointed ones.

Considering alot of those people have nothing but hate and scorn for some of the duly elected govts they have no reason to believe this.

Reform the senate? If its OK to do that then why do alot of those very same people vehemently oppose reforming our FPTP electoral system with something like PR or STV?

Because like everyone else, they think some ideas are good and some ideas aren't.
Getting two people to agree that every idea is good is like winning the lotto.
And what if elected officials does turn out to be better? Won't know until we try.

[DerbyX]

Chumley Chumley:

Because like everyone else, they think some ideas are good and some ideas aren't.
Getting two people to agree that every idea is good is like winning the lotto.
And what if elected officials does turn out to be better? Won't know until we try.

True. We can also give PR/STV a whirl too.

[Chumley]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Chumley Chumley:

Because like everyone else, they think some ideas are good and some ideas aren't.
Getting two people to agree that every idea is good is like winning the lotto.
And what if elected officials does turn out to be better? Won't know until we try.

True. We can also give PR/STV a whirl too.

hey, why not?

[DerbyX]

Chumley Chumley:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Chumley Chumley:

Because like everyone else, they think some ideas are good and some ideas aren't.
Getting two people to agree that every idea is good is like winning the lotto.
And what if elected officials does turn out to be better? Won't know until we try.

True. We can also give PR/STV a whirl too.

hey, why not?

Probably because senate reform and/or adopting an entirely new electoral system would be as contensious as turning to your GF/wife and saying "Honey. I've always found your sister attractive. Mind if I give her a twirl?"

No jury would convict her.

[herbie]

Small, petty, vindictive.
Income trusts? Lie
Fixed elections? Lie
Senate Reform? Lie

[PluggyRug]

herbie herbie:

Small, petty, vindictive.
Income trusts? Lie
Fixed elections? Lie
Senate Reform? Lie

Ha yes...I see you are a conservative.

[RUEZ]

herbie herbie:

Small, petty, vindictive.
Income trusts? Lie
Fixed elections? Lie
Senate Reform? Lie

Income trusts lie? Maybe, promise he couldn't keep definitely.
Fixed elections lie? No, he probably should have clarified for some idiots how minority governments work in parliament.
Senate reform lie? Not even close.

[Scape]

I think yours is a fair appraisal Ruez.

[herbie]

Clarify how minority gov't works like he did when ALL the opposition parties ganged up on him?

Actually I'm using the same stretch of the definition used against the Libs. Like, you'd have to have been dumb as a hammer to really think Chretien would forgo tens of billions of GST revenue, but that one still pops up on a regular basis.
Appointing 18 Senators while you're on a shit list just doesn't wash, and sure gives no indication there will be any change towards cooperation in Parliament.
But if he's gonna do it, there better be not even one from Quebec or the Maritimes. If he doesn't even go for balancing the Senate, I'm gonna PayPal a loonie to Iggy.

[uwish]

I herbie has re-aligned himself with the latest comments from his socialist master taliban jack.

[hurley_108]

herbie herbie:

But if he's gonna do it, there better be not even one from Quebec or the Maritimes. If he doesn't even go for balancing the Senate, I'm gonna PayPal a loonie to Iggy.

Well the seats are assigned to provinces, so his hands are kind of tied when it comes to what regions he appoints them from.