[Zipperfish]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Too bad you and them completely ignore the fact that Harper and the Conservatives have tried to reform the Senate only to be blocked by you, the Liberals.

In other words, they failed.

[Thanos]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Too bad you and them completely ignore the fact that Harper and the Conservatives have tried to reform the Senate only to be blocked by you, the Liberals.

In other words, they failed.

In other words, you guys protected your turf.

[Akhenaten]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Too bad you and them completely ignore the fact that Harper and the Conservatives have tried to reform the Senate only to be blocked by you, the Liberals.

In other words, they failed.

No, in other words the Liberals will do anything to stop an elected senate or senate reform....then go on to ignore this fact and blame it on 'harpocrisy'.....how hypocritical.

[poquas]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Canadaka Canadaka:

"We don't support any Senate appointments."
(Stephen Harper, Winnipeg Free Press, January 29, 1996)

"Despite the fine work of many individual Senators, the Upper House remains a dumping ground for the favoured cronies of the Prime Minister."
(Stephen Harper Leadership Website, January 15, 2004)

"In the 21st century, those who want to sit in the parliament of a democratic state should have a mandate from the people."
(Stephen Harper, February 7, 2006)

"A conservative government will not appoint to the senate anyone who does not have a mandate from the people."
(Conservative Party website during 2006 election)

"As everyone in this room knows, it has become a right of passage for aspiring leaders and prime ministers to promise Senate reform - on their way to the top - but once they are elected, Senate reform quickly falls to the bottom of the Government's agenda. Nothing ever gets done."
(Stephen Harper, Speech on Senate Reform before Senate Committee, September 7, 2006)

"I don't plan to appoint senators; that's not my intention."
(Stephen Harper, Cornwall Standard-Freeholder, January 14, 2006)

"Stephen Harper will cease patronage appointments to the Senate. Only candidates elected by the people will be named to the Upper House."
(Stephen Harper Leadership Website, January 15, 2004)

"I challenge Mr. Martin, once he becomes Prime Minister, to turn a page on the past, and appoint only elected Senators to the Upper House."
(Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance Press Release, July 4, 2003)

"Canadians from Newfoundland and Labrador to British Columbia remain ashamed of Canada`s senior legislative body. They are ashamed the Prime Minister continues the disgraceful, undemocratic appointment of undemocratic Liberals to the undemocratic Senate to pass all too often undemocratic legislation."
(Stephen Harper, Hansard, March 7, 1996)

Nice C&P from the Liberal site.

Too bad you and them completely ignore the fact that Harper and the Conservatives have tried to reform the Senate only to be blocked by you, the Liberals.
Nice try.

You just don't get it do you? Reform of the Senate has NOTHING to do with the members of the House of Commons.

[Zipperfish]

Thanos Thanos:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Too bad you and them completely ignore the fact that Harper and the Conservatives have tried to reform the Senate only to be blocked by you, the Liberals.

In other words, they failed.

In other words, you guys protected your turf.

Hey don't accuse me of being a Liberal! Frankly, from my point of view, the Liberals and Conservatives are virtually indistinguishable--and I point at the record of the last two or three governments as evidence.

I guess I'd be a libertarian, but the ones I've met seem to be a tad ideological for my tastes. A drifter in the political wasteland then. Kinda like you!

[DerbyX]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

So he fibbed a bit. Get over it.

Why should he leave the seats vacant so when the Libs get in they can stack them even more?

The Liberals and the Provinces have refused to work with him on an elected Senate and he was left with no political choice.

Sometimes your promises becomes fibs because you can't do what you promised with the opposition not willing to give up their stacked upper house.

Politicians make promises they can't keep all the time. It's not like you would vote for him anyway is it?

Like the GST? The provinces wouldn't work with him to replace it yet its still a big ole lie to the con faithful.

$1:

During the election campaign, Chrétien promised to repeal the GST, which the Liberals had denounced so vociferously while they were the Official Opposition, and replace it with a different tax. Instead of repeal, the Chrétien government attempted to restructure the tax and merge it with the provincial sales taxes in each province. They intended to call it the "Blended Sales Tax", but opponents quickly came to derisively call this proposal the "B.S. Tax," and the name was changed to "Harmonized Sales Tax" before its introduction. Only three Atlantic provinces agreed to go along with this plan, however. Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Newfoundland and Labrador now have the 13% Harmonized Sales Tax instead of separate GST and PST.

[Zipperfish]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

No, in other words the Liberals will do anything to stop an elected senate or senate reform....then go on to ignore this fact and blame it on 'harpocrisy'.....how hypocritical.

Well, I don't think Harper is in much of rush to get an elected senate. Look how easy this is--sign a decree and voila! Instant senator. He's addressing that conservative deficit in teh Senate big time, no fuss, no muss.

I don't think he's being hypocritical. Maybe from a certain angle, in that he said one thing and then did another. But from another persepctive, he has consistently pursued his own interests--he siad one thing to get power, and now he does something else to retain it. Perfectly consistent behaviour in my books.

[ridenrain]

DerbyX DerbyX:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

So he fibbed a bit. Get over it.

Why should he leave the seats vacant so when the Libs get in they can stack them even more?

The Liberals and the Provinces have refused to work with him on an elected Senate and he was left with no political choice.

Sometimes your promises becomes fibs because you can't do what you promised with the opposition not willing to give up their stacked upper house.

Politicians make promises they can't keep all the time. It's not like you would vote for him anyway is it?

Like the GST? The provinces wouldn't work with him to replace it yet its still a big ole lie to the con faithful.

$1:

During the election campaign, Chrétien promised to repeal the GST, which the Liberals had denounced so vociferously while they were the Official Opposition, and replace it with a different tax. Instead of repeal, the Chrétien government attempted to restructure the tax and merge it with the provincial sales taxes in each province. They intended to call it the "Blended Sales Tax", but opponents quickly came to derisively call this proposal the "B.S. Tax," and the name was changed to "Harmonized Sales Tax" before its introduction. Only three Atlantic provinces agreed to go along with this plan, however. Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Newfoundland and Labrador now have the 13% Harmonized Sales Tax instead of separate GST and PST.

Lol. It's always nagged at me that I never did find a voice clip of Chretien making that great, desperate plea.."And we'll remove the GST". Such a great, well documented lie.

[DerbyX]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Lol. It's always nagged at me that I never did find a voice clip of Chretien making that great, desperate plea.."And we'll remove the GST". Such a great, well documented lie.

Just like the lies Harper has told about the senate appointees, the deficit, the accepting of floor crossers, the political porking, the pandering to QC......

What a hack you are!

[Scape]

DerbyX DerbyX:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

So he fibbed a bit. Get over it.

Why should he leave the seats vacant so when the Libs get in they can stack them even more?

The Liberals and the Provinces have refused to work with him on an elected Senate and he was left with no political choice.

Sometimes your promises becomes fibs because you can't do what you promised with the opposition not willing to give up their stacked upper house.

Politicians make promises they can't keep all the time. It's not like you would vote for him anyway is it?

Like the GST? The provinces wouldn't work with him to replace it yet its still a big ole lie to the con faithful.

$1:

During the election campaign, Chrétien promised to repeal the GST, which the Liberals had denounced so vociferously while they were the Official Opposition, and replace it with a different tax. Instead of repeal, the Chrétien government attempted to restructure the tax and merge it with the provincial sales taxes in each province. They intended to call it the "Blended Sales Tax", but opponents quickly came to derisively call this proposal the "B.S. Tax," and the name was changed to "Harmonized Sales Tax" before its introduction. Only three Atlantic provinces agreed to go along with this plan, however. Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Newfoundland and Labrador now have the 13% Harmonized Sales Tax instead of separate GST and PST.

The irony? The provinces are now one by one falling in line and implementing the HST because they need the extra cash and are willing to give up sovereignty for one more term in office...

[Thanos]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Thanos Thanos:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

In other words, they failed.

In other words, you guys protected your turf.

Hey don't accuse me of being a Liberal! Frankly, from my point of view, the Liberals and Conservatives are virtually indistinguishable--and I point at the record of the last two or three governments as evidence.

I guess I'd be a libertarian, but the ones I've met seem to be a tad ideological for my tastes. A drifter in the political wasteland then. Kinda like you!

Libertarian? Ewww! Yuck! I'm a lot more comfortable in the non-partisan moderate role these days. My past trifling with the monsters in the US that destroyed my beloved Goldwater/Reagan conservatism has more-or-less permanently ended any ideological commitments I previously held. Big Obama fan now, thanks to the insanity of the current American Right. But I still think that the Canadian Liberal Party is a self-aggrandizing/self-promoting/self-rewarding criminal organization. Like Gollum screamed at Bilbo after the Ring was stolen, "Thief! Thief Baggins! We hates it! WE HATES IT FOREVER!".

[PimpBrewski123]

Hey, like it or not, at least it brings balance to the senate.

[ridenrain]

In 8 years when ours leave, who are the Liberals going to replace them with and will the new appointments have a time limit? I hardly doubt it.

It's making the best of a bad situation and if the Conservatives have to flood every seat to make effective and positive change, then I support it. Something has to be done because what's there now isn't working.

[Thanos]

PimpBrewski123 PimpBrewski123:

Hey, like it or not, at least it brings balance to the senate.

Which is of course the main issue. Any Liberals-only club anywhere that's left to it's own devices is too dangerous to the public good.

[DerbyX]

ridenrain ridenrain:

In 8 years when ours leave, who are the Liberals going to replace them with and will the new appointments have a time limit? I hardly doubt it.

It's making the best of a bad situation and if the Conservatives have to flood every seat to make effective and positive change, then I support it. Something has to be done because what's there now isn't working.

I'm sure they are all as trustworthy as Harper when they said that. Its yet another thing you are willing to support when your guy does it but not the others.

The Liberals aren't guilty of unfairly stacking the senate are they? They did so according to the laws in place and thus did it fairly. Hell martin even appointed an NDP senator.

You guys seem to think that an 8 year term limit will make any real difference or that elections will change anything.

We have elections for MPs and either our side says your guys are corrupt or you guys say it about us. Electing senators won't change that but it will add more cost to government.

I'm all for an elected senate but it won't make a bit of difference.