[Thanos]

I don't think that it'd leave a huge hole in my life if Senate reform were never mentioned again by anyone. It's another old Reform party idea (just like 99% of their other hopelessly optimistic policies) that sounded terrific on paper, but is too simplistic to ever work correctly, and is literally impossible to ever get approved by a majority of provinces or voters in a referendum. No point at all in bashing heads against that boring worn-out old wall anymore.

The real cure for Canada is what the Quebec separatists stumbled upon by accident, and that is massive devolution of overly-centralized powers back to the provinces and local municipalities. Take away Ottawa's busybodying ability to interfere in everything it feels like and the constitution probably would end up working about as well as it was intended to.

[Canadaka]

"We don't support any Senate appointments."
(Stephen Harper, Winnipeg Free Press, January 29, 1996)

"Despite the fine work of many individual Senators, the Upper House remains a dumping ground for the favoured cronies of the Prime Minister."
(Stephen Harper Leadership Website, January 15, 2004)

"In the 21st century, those who want to sit in the parliament of a democratic state should have a mandate from the people."
(Stephen Harper, February 7, 2006)

"A conservative government will not appoint to the senate anyone who does not have a mandate from the people."
(Conservative Party website during 2006 election)

"As everyone in this room knows, it has become a right of passage for aspiring leaders and prime ministers to promise Senate reform - on their way to the top - but once they are elected, Senate reform quickly falls to the bottom of the Government's agenda. Nothing ever gets done."
(Stephen Harper, Speech on Senate Reform before Senate Committee, September 7, 2006)

"I don't plan to appoint senators; that's not my intention."
(Stephen Harper, Cornwall Standard-Freeholder, January 14, 2006)

"Stephen Harper will cease patronage appointments to the Senate. Only candidates elected by the people will be named to the Upper House."
(Stephen Harper Leadership Website, January 15, 2004)

"I challenge Mr. Martin, once he becomes Prime Minister, to turn a page on the past, and appoint only elected Senators to the Upper House."
(Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance Press Release, July 4, 2003)

"Canadians from Newfoundland and Labrador to British Columbia remain ashamed of Canada`s senior legislative body. They are ashamed the Prime Minister continues the disgraceful, undemocratic appointment of undemocratic Liberals to the undemocratic Senate to pass all too often undemocratic legislation."
(Stephen Harper, Hansard, March 7, 1996)

[Zipperfish]

Thanos Thanos:

At least it's 26 Senate seats that won't be filled by Liberal hacks who decide to live in Mexico and never show up for work while still cashing their Senate paycheques. Not to mention that none of the seats will be stuffed by the personal hairdresser to the Liberal leader's wife or by their kids gym coach.

Suck it up, Libbos. The only reason this makes you uncomfortable is that it means you won't be able to win in the Senate just by running up the score.

No they'll be filled by Conservative hacks who decide to live in Mexico and never show up for work while still cashing their Senate paycheques.

[DerbyX]

He was just kidding though just like running a balanced budget.

[kenmore]

Harpocrit he was called to-day... I like that one.. So how many more issues is he going to renege on? If I was a tory who voted for him based on his past lies, I sure as hell wouldn't be dumb enough to do it again.. I mean how can you trust this guy?

[Zipperfish]

ASLplease ASLplease:

you should have just told me how you felt about my nick. at least that isn't name calling me.

You'll note that even though we have differences, and probably will continue to have differences, I haven't responded with any name calling or flaming. Please save yours for a willing participant.

Well, in my defence, I destroyed your weak-ass arguments and called you names. Twofer, really.

[kenmore]

ridenrain ridenrain:

poquas poquas:

ridenrain ridenrain:

What do you bet that if the Liberals get in power in 8 years, they replace these temporary hacks with their own hacks for life?

The only difference is that they won't be hypocritical doing it.

No. They've never pretended to be more than power hungry crooks who will say and do anything to get and stay in power.

.. but somehow that's better..

Gee...that sounds familiar... tory familiar

[Akhenaten]

$1:

$1:

They've never pretended to be more than power hungry crooks who will say and do anything to get and stay in power.

Gee...that sounds familiar... tory familiar

Sounds Liberal familiar too...just like this one:

$1:

If I was a tory Liberal who voted for him based on his past lies, I sure as hell wouldn't be dumb enough to do it again.. I mean how can you trust this guy?

[EyeBrock]

Canadaka Canadaka:

"We don't support any Senate appointments."
(Stephen Harper, Winnipeg Free Press, January 29, 1996)

"Despite the fine work of many individual Senators, the Upper House remains a dumping ground for the favoured cronies of the Prime Minister."
(Stephen Harper Leadership Website, January 15, 2004)

"In the 21st century, those who want to sit in the parliament of a democratic state should have a mandate from the people."
(Stephen Harper, February 7, 2006)

"A conservative government will not appoint to the senate anyone who does not have a mandate from the people."
(Conservative Party website during 2006 election)

"As everyone in this room knows, it has become a right of passage for aspiring leaders and prime ministers to promise Senate reform - on their way to the top - but once they are elected, Senate reform quickly falls to the bottom of the Government's agenda. Nothing ever gets done."
(Stephen Harper, Speech on Senate Reform before Senate Committee, September 7, 2006)

"I don't plan to appoint senators; that's not my intention."
(Stephen Harper, Cornwall Standard-Freeholder, January 14, 2006)

"Stephen Harper will cease patronage appointments to the Senate. Only candidates elected by the people will be named to the Upper House."
(Stephen Harper Leadership Website, January 15, 2004)

"I challenge Mr. Martin, once he becomes Prime Minister, to turn a page on the past, and appoint only elected Senators to the Upper House."
(Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance Press Release, July 4, 2003)

"Canadians from Newfoundland and Labrador to British Columbia remain ashamed of Canada`s senior legislative body. They are ashamed the Prime Minister continues the disgraceful, undemocratic appointment of undemocratic Liberals to the undemocratic Senate to pass all too often undemocratic legislation."
(Stephen Harper, Hansard, March 7, 1996)

So he fibbed a bit. Get over it.

Why should he leave the seats vacant so when the Libs get in they can stack them even more?

The Liberals and the Provinces have refused to work with him on an elected Senate and he was left with no political choice.

Sometimes your promises becomes fibs because you can't do what you promised with the opposition not willing to give up their stacked upper house.

Politicians make promises they can't keep all the time. It's not like you would vote for him anyway is it?

[kenmore]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

poquas poquas:

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

Any Liberal calling these appointments hypocritical is, in fact, hypocritical. The Liberal supporters remained quiet for 2+ decades while the Liberal Party stacked the senate with whomever they liked. Now tht it's not their party stacking the senate it's time to pout and call Harper a facist.




Fact is the "Senate" has been a sham for 2000+ years.

I am (was) a lifelong Conservative and I'm calling these appointments hypocritical. Not because they’re being made, but because they’re being made with the suggestions that “he has to do it” and that “they’re only here until the Senate changes”.

Harper is doing what every other PM has done for the same reasons. To obtain more power. It would be nice if he had the guts to admit it and stop pretending it's going to be different because he's doing it.

Fair enough. I don't really disagree. If only life-long Liberal members felt the same way when their party was assigning senate seats.

Point here is the libs never said they didn't want an appointed Senate,, harper did many times over and over and over and probably got elected by people who believed his lies and wanted Senate change.. You cant harp (er) on changing things to be elected and then back track on your promise,,some maybe, but he went on and on and on about this subject...

[ridenrain]

Hey.. I got this government works check I need to cash.. You keep 1/4 and send the rest back to my party as a "donation" ok?

[OnTheIce]

Canadaka Canadaka:

"We don't support any Senate appointments."
(Stephen Harper, Winnipeg Free Press, January 29, 1996)

"Despite the fine work of many individual Senators, the Upper House remains a dumping ground for the favoured cronies of the Prime Minister."
(Stephen Harper Leadership Website, January 15, 2004)

"In the 21st century, those who want to sit in the parliament of a democratic state should have a mandate from the people."
(Stephen Harper, February 7, 2006)

"A conservative government will not appoint to the senate anyone who does not have a mandate from the people."
(Conservative Party website during 2006 election)

"As everyone in this room knows, it has become a right of passage for aspiring leaders and prime ministers to promise Senate reform - on their way to the top - but once they are elected, Senate reform quickly falls to the bottom of the Government's agenda. Nothing ever gets done."
(Stephen Harper, Speech on Senate Reform before Senate Committee, September 7, 2006)

"I don't plan to appoint senators; that's not my intention."
(Stephen Harper, Cornwall Standard-Freeholder, January 14, 2006)

"Stephen Harper will cease patronage appointments to the Senate. Only candidates elected by the people will be named to the Upper House."
(Stephen Harper Leadership Website, January 15, 2004)

"I challenge Mr. Martin, once he becomes Prime Minister, to turn a page on the past, and appoint only elected Senators to the Upper House."
(Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance Press Release, July 4, 2003)

"Canadians from Newfoundland and Labrador to British Columbia remain ashamed of Canada`s senior legislative body. They are ashamed the Prime Minister continues the disgraceful, undemocratic appointment of undemocratic Liberals to the undemocratic Senate to pass all too often undemocratic legislation."
(Stephen Harper, Hansard, March 7, 1996)

Nice C&P from the Liberal site.

Too bad you and them completely ignore the fact that Harper and the Conservatives have tried to reform the Senate only to be blocked by you, the Liberals.

Nice try.

[kenmore]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Hey.. I got this government works check I need to cash.. You keep 1/4 and send the rest back to my party as a "donation" ok?

Fits right in with the pork barrel cronyism type politics of the harper regime

[OnTheIce]

kenmore kenmore:

Point here is the libs never said they didn't want an appointed Senate,, harper did many times over and over and over and probably got elected by people who believed his lies and wanted Senate change.. You cant harp (er) on changing things to be elected and then back track on your promise,,some maybe, but he went on and on and on about this subject...

Point here is, you need to get a clue.

Do us all a favour and understand a topic before you reply. You come off as such an ignorant buffoon sometimes as you know nothing about the topics you speak of.

We're talking ELECTED Senate here genius, not APPOINTED.

Second, he didn't back track on his promise. He made a promise to reform the Senate yet was given a MINORITY parliament to work with.

He's tried NUMEROUS TIMES to change the Senate only to be blocked by Liberals.

Let's not ignore the obvious that:

1. Harper has a MINORITY Parliament. Kinda hard to make a big change like this without the majority.

2. Harper has tried to change the Senate, dispute his minority government, to no avail

Let's stop ignoring the obvious just to make a partisan argument that we all know has no merit but to score some political points.

[Akhenaten]

$1:

You cant harp (er) on changing things to be elected and then back track on your promise,,some maybe, but he went on and on and on about this subject...

lol..yeah but that's not exactly what happened is it? If you think it is you'er missing a huge portion of the story.

$1:

Fits right in with the pork barrel cronyism type politics of the harper regime

LOL!!! Unless you're 14 and don't remember earlier than 5-6 years ago then THIS is the biggest load of hypocritical crap on the thread. Pork barrel Liberal cronyism is the reason the CPC ever got as far as it has.