[Akhenaten]

poquas poquas:

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

Any Liberal calling these appointments hypocritical is, in fact, hypocritical. The Liberal supporters remained quiet for 2+ decades while the Liberal Party stacked the senate with whomever they liked. Now tht it's not their party stacking the senate it's time to pout and call Harper a facist.




Fact is the "Senate" has been a sham for 2000+ years.

I am (was) a lifelong Conservative and I'm calling these appointments hypocritical. Not because they’re being made, but because they’re being made with the suggestions that “he has to do it” and that “they’re only here until the Senate changes”.

Harper is doing what every other PM has done for the same reasons. To obtain more power. It would be nice if he had the guts to admit it and stop pretending it's going to be different because he's doing it.

Fair enough. I don't really disagree. If only life-long Liberal members felt the same way when their party was assigning senate seats.

[ridenrain]

poquas poquas:

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

Any Liberal calling these appointments hypocritical is, in fact, hypocritical. The Liberal supporters remained quiet for 2+ decades while the Liberal Party stacked the senate with whomever they liked. Now tht it's not their party stacking the senate it's time to pout and call Harper a facist.




Fact is the "Senate" has been a sham for 2000+ years.

I am (was) a lifelong Conservative and I'm calling these appointments hypocritical. Not because they’re being made, but because they’re being made with the suggestions that “he has to do it” and that “they’re only here until the Senate changes”.

Harper is doing what every other PM has done for the same reasons. To obtain more power. It would be nice if he had the guts to admit it and stop pretending it's going to be different because he's doing it.

Here's a tissue. Come back when you clean up and realize that politics is a game of compromises.

[poquas]

If you really understood politics and the way the Canadian Parliment is supposed to work you wouldn't have to be humiliated so often.

[bootlegga]

First off, I'm from Edmonton, so you point that I might think that Albertans should STFU is WAY off.

My point is that Alberta (at least until very recently) has been the only province wanting a Triple E (or even just an elected) senate. Therefore, Harper and his party, at least until recently, were pushing an agenda representative of their constituents. I'm not saying that's a bad thing (quite the opposite IMHO), but by abandoning this position, he is also abandoning his constituents. What's next? Supporting gay marriage? Marijuana decriminalization?

This is akin to the Liberals abandoning health care or the NDP changing their views on the social safety net. That makes your "Liberals are hypocrites' argument specious, because they have ALWAYS used the senate as a political tool, while Harper and his party have ALWAYS wanted something else.

And of course Alberta is the heart of Harper's political base, just like Ontario is the base of the Liberals. He only got above 50% of the vote in two provinces, guess which two...Alberta and Saskatchewan. Alberta is the heart of the West, which provides his political base. Almost half of his seats in the past election came from the West (71 out of 143). He (and many of his cabinet members) started out as a Reformer, moved to the Alliance, and finally became a 'Conservative' when he convinced the PCs into merging into the party as it is currently known. Perhaps you don't remember the Reform Party's slogan, "The West wants in". Guess where the Reform Party was founded?

No, Alberta had a chance to get their precious elected senate almost 20 years ago and rejected it by a large margin. Why? Because they wanted something for nothing. Had they been willing to accept the Charlottetown Accords and not act like children, we might have it now. Instead they took exception to the parts they didn't like and now whine about not getting their way.

[ridenrain]

poquas poquas:

If you really understood politics and the way the Canadian Parliment is supposed to work you wouldn't have to be humiliated so often.

Your "life long Conservative" ploy has been torn down it's a wonder you still use it.

[ASLplease]

bootlegga bootlegga:

...
This is akin to the Liberals abandoning health care.

I don't mean to cause a diversion, but I'd like to note that the Cretien years were not exactly a rosey time for our health care system. The Liberals can claim that they care about health care, but their actions tell a different story.

[Akhenaten]

$1:

First off, I'm from Edmonton, so you point that I might think that Albertans should STFU is WAY off.

Fair enough but I took that posability into account...and what did I say if I was wrong?

$1:

This is akin to the Liberals abandoning health care or the NDP changing their views on the social safety net. That makes your "Liberals are hypocrites' argument specious, because they have ALWAYS used the senate as a political tool, while Harper and his party have ALWAYS wanted something else.

That's a much better point, imo. However my original point was that if you're a Liberal and you're accusing Harper of being hypocritical yet approved of or looked the other way in regards to senate-stacking in the past then that person is being hypocritical.

$1:

Perhaps you don't remember the Reform Party's slogan, "The West wants in". Guess where the Reform Party was founded?

Oh I remember it, and we do.

[Zipperfish]

ASLplease ASLplease:

you dont know me, do you?

I remember a case where Alberta elected a 'senator in waiting'. however, cretien used his authority as PM to appoint his own senators, and he snubbed the will of the alberta public.

At the time, i said the same thing about cretien as i have about harper ie "...proving that he is Prime Minister and is more than willing to act like one..."

Newsflash, Captain Pinhead--Chretien is gone. He's been gone for many, many years now. T The Conservatives form the government, in case you haven't heard.

A much more timely question is why the Conservatives, who've been in power some time now, continue to act like the official Opposition by blaming everything ont he Liberals (who actually are part of the official Opposition). Rather than actually do anything, to take any initiative, to work towards an elected senate as promised, they instead sit and mudsling at long-gone political figures?

Maybe deep down they actually believe the old saw about teh Liberals being the Natural Governing Party.

[Akhenaten]

ridenrain ridenrain:

poquas poquas:

If you really understood politics and the way the Canadian Parliment is supposed to work you wouldn't have to be humiliated so often.

Your "life long Conservative" ploy has been torn down it's a wonder you still use it.

Phffft. ridenrain is now the decider of who's a conservative and who isn't.

[ridenrain]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

ridenrain ridenrain:

poquas poquas:

If you really understood politics and the way the Canadian Parliment is supposed to work you wouldn't have to be humiliated so often.

Your "life long Conservative" ploy has been torn down it's a wonder you still use it.

Phffft. ridenrain is now the decider of who's a conservative and who isn't.

If someone came into the forum, calling themselves a life long conservative, from a long family line of conservatives yet never, ever says anything positive about them, what would you conclude? Poquas says he's PC yet he mever trusted or voted for Mulroney and cannot seem to accept that party no longer exists and move on.. yet he still keeps calling himself a Conservative.

It's a transparant ruse and it's failed.

You weren't here when he joined but we argues this quite a bit. Maybe you should search and review those threads.

[poquas]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

ridenrain ridenrain:

poquas poquas:

If you really understood politics and the way the Canadian Parliment is supposed to work you wouldn't have to be humiliated so often.

Your "life long Conservative" ploy has been torn down it's a wonder you still use it.

Phffft. ridenrain is now the decider of who's a conservative and who isn't.

That's ok. The Conservative party called me this morning asking for another donation. I guess if they still think I'm a Conservative that's really all that counts. They didn't get one this time.

Ridenrain is the self appointed gate keeper of all things Conservative here. If you aren’t willing to accept anything and everything that the party does without question (sounds Taliban to me) and can’t find and post something negative about the opposition daily, you’re not a real Conservative. He has no capability to rationalize anything that might be in the least way negative about Steve or anything that might actually be (gasp!) positive about any of the opposition.

If the Libs get back in, there’ll be no holding him back once he recovers from his profound depression.

Tell me RR, how is it you can spend so much time here slaying enemies of the empire? Do you not have a job?

[ASLplease]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

ASLplease ASLplease:

you dont know me, do you?

I remember a case where Alberta elected a 'senator in waiting'. however, cretien used his authority as PM to appoint his own senators, and he snubbed the will of the alberta public.

At the time, i said the same thing about cretien as i have about harper ie "...proving that he is Prime Minister and is more than willing to act like one..."

Newsflash, Captain Pinhead--Chretien is gone. He's been gone for many, many years now. T The Conservatives form the government, in case you haven't heard.

A much more timely question is why the Conservatives, who've been in power some time now, continue to act like the official Opposition by blaming everything ont he Liberals (who actually are part of the official Opposition). Rather than actually do anything, to talke any initaive, to work towards an elected senate as promised, they instead sit and mudsling at long-gone political figures?

Maybe deep down they actually believe the old saw about teh Liberals being the Natural Governing Party.

Arctic Menace brought up Cretien first, and I was only responding to his comment while keeping it in context with the topic at hand.

Is is really necessary to call me a captain Pinhead?

or perhaps I am miss reading you, and you are really calling Cretien the 'captain pinhead'? If this is the case, could you please take issue with Arctic Menace? He was the one to bring him up.

[Zipperfish]

ASLplease ASLplease:

Arctic Menace brought up Cretien first, and I was only responding to his comment while keeping it in context with the topic at hand.

Is is really necessary to call me a captain Pinhead?

or perhaps I am miss reading you, and you are really calling Cretien the 'captain pinhead'? If this is the case, could you please take issue with Arctic Menace? He was the one to bring him up.

Well, I didn't really want to call you Captain Pinheaded, but when you've got a completely fucking retarded nick like "ASLplease", I didn't really see that I had any choice in the matter.

This isn't a singular instance. It's a pattern. I see it by you, by others here, and on Parliament Hill, time and time again. The Conservatives seem uncomfortable with the reins of pwoer. I can well understand it. Harper used to be the head of one of these anti-government outfits, Canadian Taxpayers Federation or something like that. It must be a nasty position for him to be in: to hate the government and to be the government. I suppose an understandable response would be to just to continue to act like the official opposition, which is exactly what he and his supporters have done.

[ASLplease]

you should have just told me how you felt about my nick. at least that isn't name calling me.

You'll note that even though we have differences, and probably will continue to have differences, I haven't responded with any name calling or flaming. Please save yours for a willing participant.

[OnTheIce]

poquas poquas:

Tell me RR, how is it you can spend so much time here slaying enemies of the empire? Do you not have a job?

You've been here 6 months and have 1571 posts. I've been here close to 4 years and have only 400 more. Do you have a job?

As for your question, I well aware of what needs to take place to reform the senate and personally, don't have the time to write out something you can investigate on your own.