[Chumley]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Chumley Chumley:

The last time I stated my belief that gun ownership should be denied without passing a competency course of sorts I got called a liberal facsist trying to take rights away from people.

Not by me. I don't think you should be able to practice medicine law, trade or anything of real importance without training.

[Chumley]

DerbyX DerbyX:

I have a problem with the belief that C&C laws will lower crime in the least and the idea that your random civie gun owner is up to the task of shooting somebody in the course of a crime without tragic results.

Lets face it. Any gun course you have to pass will include the usage of and basic safety. It won't include combat training.

Will it lower crime? I don't know for certain.
Honest people will be as law abiding toward each other as they always are, whether they are unarmed or armed.
Criminals on the other hand would not have the upper hand.
At least the playing field would be leveled.

[Chumley]

Oh, I suppose I should actually a comment on the actual thread.
I started reading and lo and behold, I got sidetracked!

"Accused killer Vince Li bears sole responsibility for the grisly death of Greyhound bus passenger Tim McLean, the bus line says in court documents filed last week."

Good. This is obviously not the responibility of Greyhound.

[mixedfarmer]

a man here got millions when his wife died in a train wreck. so if the rails were tampered with should he have gotten the money or not?

[mixedfarmer]

i am sure grey hound has insurance to cover a law suit

[DerbyX]

Chumley Chumley:

DerbyX DerbyX:

I have a problem with the belief that C&C laws will lower crime in the least and the idea that your random civie gun owner is up to the task of shooting somebody in the course of a crime without tragic results.

Lets face it. Any gun course you have to pass will include the usage of and basic safety. It won't include combat training.

Will it lower crime? I don't know for certain.
Honest people will be as law abiding toward each other as they always are, whether they are unarmed or armed.
Criminals on the other hand would not have the upper hand.
At least the playing field would be leveled.

Thats the position I take. It won't lower crime anymore then gun bans will.

When crime goes up, the left screams gun bans and the right screams jail everybody.

Neither method works. The truth is that all and all Canada is a very peaceful and safe city compared to loads of comperable places. I've never felt the need to carry a gun.

[Chumley]

mixedfarmer mixedfarmer:

a man here got millions when his wife died in a train wreck. so if the rails were tampered with should he have gotten the money or not?

That should depend on whether the tampering should reasonably have been caught by the railway in time.

Not really equivalent though. There was no tampering with anything in this case.

[Chumley]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Chumley Chumley:

DerbyX DerbyX:

I have a problem with the belief that C&C laws will lower crime in the least and the idea that your random civie gun owner is up to the task of shooting somebody in the course of a crime without tragic results.

Lets face it. Any gun course you have to pass will include the usage of and basic safety. It won't include combat training.

Will it lower crime? I don't know for certain.
Honest people will be as law abiding toward each other as they always are, whether they are unarmed or armed.
Criminals on the other hand would not have the upper hand.
At least the playing field would be leveled.

Thats the position I take. It won't lower crime anymore then gun bans will.

When crime goes up, the left screams gun bans and the right screams jail everybody.

Neither method works. The truth is that all and all Canada is a very peaceful and safe city compared to loads of comperable places. I've never felt the need to carry a gun.

And whether or not you feel the need to carry one, what those who do feel the need? If the law says I can't have a gun, my rights are affected. If the law says I can carry one, you still don't have to.

[romanP]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Had the bus driver or at least someone on the bus had been licensed to carry a handgun the kid may still have been stabbed, but he'd probably still be alive and we'd have a dead perp.

uhh.. huh huh, if everybody on the bus had nukular wehpunz, they could have nuked his ass huh huh huh

The gun nut crowd still manages to gloss over the VERY IMPORTANT fact that, regardless of whether anyone had a gun or not, the kid was dead before anyone had even realised what was happening.

[Chumley]

mixedfarmer mixedfarmer:

i am sure grey hound has insurance to cover a law suit

Which they would recoup by raising rates.

[romanP]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DerbyX DerbyX:

The victim was pounced on in a surprise attack and stabbed repeatedly in the neck before anybody could even look up let alone pull a gun out, assess the situation and shoot the correct person.

You don't know anyone who carries a gun, do you? You don't know any cops or any ex-military either because there's no end of both that I know who'd have not even had their heart rate rise in such a situation and it would have been over in two seconds or less.

A lot of people probably don't know any people like that. In fact, most people aren't cops or military or even ex-military.

$1:

Just because you don't know anyone who has these abilities does not mean that people with these abilities do not exist. Plenty of them do.

Not that many. Not enough to make a difference.

[romanP]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DerbyX DerbyX:

You are holding that somebody armed with a gun would have solved the situation. What if this guy had had a gun?

He didn't. And if he had then you'd have a busload of dead people but you'd be okay with that because no one was accidentally shot by an armed citizen.

We can play "what if" to the nth degree. What if aliens came down and fucking nuked the bus, huh? What Dick Cheney breathed bad coffee breath into the bus, what then? (I don't know if Dick Cheney drinks coffee. I also don't care.)

The fact is, the passengers on the bus was sleeping and nobody realised what was happening until it was too late to do anything. Pulling out a gun and killing the guy with the knife after he commits the murder doesn't save anyone's life, it just satisfies your emotional, knee-jerk reaction to things you don't like.

[RUEZ]

romanP romanP:

uhh.. huh huh, if everybody on the bus had nukular wehpunz, they could have nuked his ass huh huh huh

The gun nut crowd still manages to gloss over the VERY IMPORTANT fact that, regardless of whether anyone had a gun or not, the kid was dead before anyone had even realised what was happening.

How do you know when the guy was dead.

[romanP]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Chumley Chumley:

Do I do nothing and leave it to chance or do I do something, possibly fail, but at least tried.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

- Theodore Roosevelt.

Wow. The stupidity just gets worse and worse.

"Well, didn't kill the guy with the knife, but at least I killed someone!"

I think that pretty plainly puts your intentions into perspective. You don't hold this opinion because you want to save lives, you hold it because you want to shoot people. I think both of you should seek help, very soon.

[romanP]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

I dont know why people are comparing American gun owners to Canadian ones. Canada does have a gun culture but it is nothing like the US. Another point everyone is forgetting, you never fire a loaded weapon in a crowded room, I dont care if you can shoot the wings off a fly at the gun range. You might hit your target, but your bullet might also go through him or her and hit someone closet to your target.

It's funny that Bart doesn't know this, after having claimed to have fired thousands of rounds of ammunition PER DAY.