[Mustang1]

herbie herbie:

I'd go for the goat entrails.

You would, and that would be the only thing that would tell you a Saturn has superior reliability.

$1:

About as reliable as going on expired data to judge something sitting in a car lot today.

J.D. Power and Consumer Reports is "expired" data? Please, oh please, explain how J.D. Power is "expired" data as GM seems to love using it in advertising when Buick does well? I'll wait on this one. You're nothing more than an apologist for junk automobiles. I've got industry experts and objective data and you've got...? Exactly. Shuffle on

$1:

Better than a brand name loyalty blinding you to the fact anyone can turn out a total P.O.S.

I've got superior automobile loyalty vs. your reliance on ignorance and anecdotal nonsense. Hondas are more reliable and have a higher resale value than Saturns. Done. Also, soon Saturn will go bye-bye, despite people like you that they're super, fantastic, fun, fun cars. Don't like it? I don't care.

[Mustang1]

stemmer stemmer:

The problem with Motor Trend, Car & Driver and Road & Track reviews is they usually favor the manufacturer who does the most advertising within their magazine.... So I'm with Herbie on this one... I would sooner base my decision on my own personal experience and the advice of people in the industry that I personally know...

Prove it. Demonstrate with objective evidence that Car and Driver consistently chooses manufacturers that do the most advertising. You made the claim, let's see you back it up.

And the problem with J.D. Power (which I had to introduce you to) and Consumer Reports (which you've quoted here before)? I'll be waiting on this enlightened response.

[herbie]

Hey, I don't want to argue with just you over something that the thread isn't about. Specially when I already said I bought the damn thing for it's Honda engine, for way, way less than for a Honda. It even gets better mileage than the four-banger standard engine.
And like most Saturn owners, I'm going to keep it a long long time. So the resale value means very little. By the time it's written down I will have to sell it for $100 or there will be tax penalties anyway.

To return to the subject, GM is denying they intend to ditch Pontiac. They say it's all industry rumours.

[mtbr]

herbie herbie:

Hey, I don't want to argue with just you over something that the thread isn't about. Specially when I already said I bought the damn thing for it's Honda engine, for way, way less than for a Honda. It even gets better mileage than the four-banger standard engine.
And like most Saturn owners, I'm going to keep it a long long time. So the resale value means very little. By the time it's written down I will have to sell it for $100 or there will be tax penalties anyway.

To return to the subject, GM is denying they intend to ditch Pontiac. They say it's all industry rumours.

what are you driving?

[Mustang1]

herbie herbie:

Hey, I don't want to argue with just you over something that the thread isn't about.

Cut the crap - i iniatially was speculating about GM's restructuring future and you popped in to claim i "rant" about the Big 3 (not true...i only comment on objective elements regarding GM, Chysler and Ford and sometimes its positive) and then followed up my industry accounts of Saturn's poor reliability (something you've done squat to counter) with an obvious cheap shot about alleged "old data" tables (which they're not and again, you've done squat to counter) and assumptions about making decisions based on said "old data" tables. You're here to try and make cheap points, so don't try and excuse it with that kind of mush.

$1:

Specially when I already said I bought the damn thing for it's Honda engine, for way, way less than for a Honda. It even gets better mileage than the four-banger standard engine.

And yet, you carried on with a different tone.


To return to the subject, GM is denying they intend to ditch Pontiac. They say it's all industry rumours.[/quote]

To return to the subject, you've done NOTHING to substantiate your claim of "old data" tables OR refute countless industry periodicals that all suggest Saturn's reliability, dependability and build quality is substandard. Next time, get you facts straight BEFORE posting or don't make claims you can't back.

Oh...and CNN and Edumunds are reporting that Pontiac's axing is imminent. Back to the topic and all.

[Streaker]

And there you have it: Today GM announced that it will be phasing out the Pontiac brand.

[poquas]

Streaker Streaker:

And there you have it: Today GM announced that it will be phasing out the Pontiac brand.

This can't really be news. This was one of the first things GM announced when they realized they were in serious trouble.

[danimal]

R.I.Pontiac.

[QBall]

Meh, Pontiac has been a superflous division for years. All of their vehicles are just rebadged from other divisions (G3=Aveo; G5=Cobalt; G6=Malibu Coupe; G8=Holden Commodore; Torrent=Aztec; Solstice=Skye; Vibe=Matrix). Might as well axe it and put the resources into promoting the brands that are going to survive.

[MUSCLE_toys]

Regardless of anyone's personal politics and beliefs, it's scary to see so many people losing jobs and the ripple effect that will have on other business.

[stemmer]

Ontario is slowly becoming a have not province....

[Mustang1]

By definition, Ontario already is a have-not province. At least someone's consistent.

[Streaker]

poquas poquas:

Streaker Streaker:

And there you have it: Today GM announced that it will be phasing out the Pontiac brand.

This can't really be news. This was one of the first things GM announced when they realized they were in serious trouble.

Well, there was certainly a lot of speculation.

I'm still a little disappointed about it, though. The first car I can remember is my dad's old Grand Prix. I loved that car even though it was probably a piece of crap.

[Lemmy]

J.D. Power is the most USELESS report on cars. It's based on the 1st 90 days of ownership. It's pretty meaningless, since every car in the market is under warranty for the first 90 days. Retained value at the end of warranty is the only meaningful measure of a car's quality.

[poquas]

I wonder if this means an enlarged option list for Chevs.

Pontiac was the smart choice if you wanted a dressed up version of a Chev model without having to pay for a bunch of basic options.

While I'm sorry to see the job losses too, I still don't think dropping another production line is going to save GM.