[PluggyRug]

andyt andyt:

You're wasting your time, Delwin:

I didn't know Delwin is a cat.

[desertdude]

And guess what, even after being snubbed like a leper, the US is going to obey and help its little buddy get away with a slap on the wrist at best.

[2Cdo]

Delwin Delwin:

Oh you didn't here ? Yeah they were hitting UN schools, home for disabled, power plants, hospitals, all war crimes. Surprised you haven't heard, it was all over the news.

See my above post dummy.

$1:

A bombed hospital is about as clear 'evidence' of a war crime as you can get. There might be justification for the action, but to imply there is no evidence is just willful blindness.

It's evidence of nothing when used as a place to either store weapons, ammo or to fire from the "protected" area.

$1:

Of course, the Goldstone Commission found them guilty of War Crimes in 2009, so it wouldn't exactly be fall out of your chair shocking now would it?

Funny, but when anti-Israel retards are in charge of the trial I ignore their outcomes as they are not based on the Laws of Armed Conflict but rather on a barely disguised anti-Semitism.

[2Cdo]

desertdude desertdude:

And guess what, even after being snubbed like a leper, the US is going to obey and help its little buddy get away with a slap on the wrist at best.

The ONLY party with real evidence against them for committing war crimes is Hamas. But I don't really expect much from such an unbiased sort like yourself.

[Delwin]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Delwin Delwin:

Oh you didn't here ? Yeah they were hitting UN schools, home for disabled, power plants, hospitals, all war crimes. Surprised you haven't heard, it was all over the news.

See my above post dummy.

$1:

A bombed hospital is about as clear 'evidence' of a war crime as you can get. There might be justification for the action, but to imply there is no evidence is just willful blindness.

It's evidence of nothing when used as a place to either store weapons, ammo or to fire from the "protected" area.

$1:

Of course, the Goldstone Commission found them guilty of War Crimes in 2009, so it wouldn't exactly be fall out of your chair shocking now would it?

Funny, but when anti-Israel retards are in charge of the trial I ignore their outcomes as they are not based on the Laws of Armed Conflict but rather on a barely disguised anti-Semitism.

K, so when a decision is made through independent international investigation and you don't like the findings then they are anti-Semitic. So you only accept facts that support your argument. Got it. You have your eyes closed.

Don't worry, your not the only one who blatantly ignores international laws and rulings.

[Freakinoldguy]

You're absolutely correct about the Goldstone Fact Finding Mission claiming that Israel may have committed war crimes and quite possible crimes against humanity but and this is a big but, what you forgot to mention was that the same commission found that Hamas had committed the exact same alleged crimes as Israel.

$1:

There was evidence indicating Israel had committed serious violations of international human rights and humanitarian law during the Gaza conflict and actions amounting to war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity, it was reported today by the United Nations fact-finding mission on the Gaza conflict, upon the release of the mission’s official report and recommendations.

The 575-page report, which was forwarded to the Government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority this morning and posted on the website of the Human Rights Council, also concluded that evidence exists that Palestinian armed groups committed war crimes, as well as possibly crimes against humanity, in their repeated launching of rockets and mortars into southern Israel.

http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/6A7 ... ymdxZ.dpuf

So if you're going to use the Commission as a basis for your accusations about Israel committing war crime then you shouldn't be surprised when people who disagree with you point out the fact that Hamas did exactly the same things and got called for it in the same report.

Unless of course you think the Palestinians have the right to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity whereas Israel doesn't which, would show a complete lack of objectivity.

[N_Fiddledog]

Here's another little bump in the casualty stats.

Hamas said to have executed dozens of tunnel diggers


http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said ... l-diggers/

[Delwin]

Re: F.O.G.

That's fine, I never argued that Hamas shouldn't be held to account for what they have done. They shot random rockets into Israel with no regard for civilian life and if not for the Iron Dome, they may have succeeded in killing many more civilians. I hope they are completely put out of commission, but not just to be replaced by another even more radical terrorist group.

If you want to know the best way to breed terror in your country, kill 1000 innocent civilians and don't hold anyone to account for it. Remove all sense of justice and fairness. How will you expect people to behave in a just manner ? You think the orphans and siblings of those killed are going to forget or not harbour animosity towards Israel ?

The difference between the two factions is, Hamas is a recognized terrorist group, Israel is supposed to be a civilized democracy. Hamas has no international credibility, Israel does. Should we hold a democratic country to a higher standard than a terrorist organization ? Of course we should.

As for the tunnels, they used the tunnels and infiltrated Israel and killed no one but soldiers while having every opportunity to kill civilians. The tunnels are actually the least terrorist tactic they have used.

Trying to create a motive for the tunnels other than military is unfounded at this point. They used them and they engaged soldiers in the course of a war, that is not terror. It's a practice that has been used to circumvent walls since the medieval times. It wasn't terror then and it is not terror now, especially if we consider the fact that the wall itself is illegal and should be torn down:

http://electronicintifada.net/content/i ... -wall/1743

Basically, you don't get to build an illegal prison around a population and then try to garner symathy when they try to escape.
As for your article Fiddle did you read it ?

$1:

In 2012, a Journal of Palestine Studies article claimed 160 Palestinian children were killed while working on Hamas’s tunnel system.

Has nothing to do with the massive amount of civilian casualties in this conflict.

[Freakinoldguy]

Delwin Delwin:

Re: F.O.G.

The difference between the two factions is, Hamas is a recognized terrorist group, Israel is supposed to be a civilized democracy. Hamas has no international credibility, Israel does. Should we hold a democratic country to a higher standard than a terrorist organization ? Of course we should.

As for the tunnels, they used the tunnels and infiltrated Israel and killed no one but soldiers while having every opportunity to kill civilians. The tunnels are actually the least terrorist tactic they have used.

Trying to create a motive for the tunnels other than military is unfounded at this point. They used them and they engaged soldiers in the course of a war, that is not terror. It's a practice that has been used to circumvent walls since the medieval times. It wasn't terror then and it is not terror now, especially if we consider the fact that the wall itself is illegal and should be torn down:

http://electronicintifada.net/content/i ... -wall/1743

Basically, you don't get to build an illegal prison around a population and then try to garner symathy when they try to escape.
As for your article Fiddle did you read it ?

$1:

In 2012, a Journal of Palestine Studies article claimed 160 Palestinian children were killed while working on Hamas’s tunnel system.

Has nothing to do with the massive amount of civilian casualties in this conflict.

Terrorist be damned. Hamas is still the duly elected Government of Gaza Strip the same as the Gov't of Israel is still the duly elected leadership of their country. So, they should both be held to the same standards for their acts and that's exactly what the Fact Finding Commission did.

Just because you sympathize with Hamas doesn't alter the fact that they did the exact same things you're vilifying Israel for which means both sides are equally culpable for their own alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity. Excusing one because they're terrorists is absurd and as the matter of fact since Hamas is the duly elected Gov't of the Gaza strip and terrorist's are they not a terrorist regime? When you think about it, given past history when dealing with terrorist states who attack their neighbours the Palestinians in Gaza should consider themselves lucky that America is only supplying weapons to Israel and Egypt and not invading their sorry their strip of paradise.

As for the tunnels, I didn't bring them up but, as far as I'm concerned they're just another tool in the terrorist regimes' arsenal. Although, it's nice to see you admit to Hamas being terrorists but, since they use the tunnels to launch attacks on unsuspecting Israeli citizens those tunnels are no different than the planes that were used in the 911 attacks or the car bombs being used in Baghdad.

No matter how people spin it what we have here is the State of Israel at war with the Gaza Strip which, like it or not considers itself a sovereign nation meaning, we have two countries at war with each other and just because one of them is better armed, trained and equipped doesn't necessarily make the other one oppressed and not responsible for their actions. .

[martin14]

Delwin Delwin:

$1:

In 2012, a Journal of Palestine Studies article claimed 160 Palestinian children were killed while working on Hamas’s tunnel system.

Has nothing to do with the massive amount of civilian casualties in this conflict.

It's exactly this kind of double standard horseshit.

See those kids were killed by Hamas, but since it wasn't the Jooo$ killing them,

and it doesn't fit the anti Jew Krew's mantra, then it's nothing to worry about.

Just brush it off.

It's like they never existed for the wailing lefties.

[Delwin]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Terrorist be damned. Hamas is still the duly elected Government of Gaza Strip the same as the Gov't of Israel is still the duly elected leadership of their country. So, they should both be held to the same standards for their acts and that's exactly what the Fact Finding Commission did.

Just because you sympathize with Hamas doesn't alter the fact that they did the exact same things you're vilifying Israel for which means both sides are equally culpable for their own alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity. Excusing one because they're terrorists is absurd and as the matter of fact since Hamas is the duly elected Gov't of the Gaza strip and terrorist's are they not a terrorist regime? When you think about it, given past history when dealing with terrorist states who attack their neighbours the Palestinians in Gaza should consider themselves lucky that America is only supplying weapons to Israel and Egypt and not invading their sorry their strip of paradise.

I'm completely on the same page as you here. Let's treat them by the same standard. We can start by declaring the Likud a terrorist organization. I'll draft the petition for you to sign

Their both guilty of war crimes. Why should Hamas get all the fun?

[andyt]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

You're absolutely correct about the Goldstone Fact Finding Mission claiming that Israel may have committed war crimes and quite possible crimes against humanity but and this is a big but, what you forgot to mention was that the same commission found that Hamas had committed the exact same alleged crimes as Israel.

$1:

There was evidence indicating Israel had committed serious violations of international human rights and humanitarian law during the Gaza conflict and actions amounting to war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity, it was reported today by the United Nations fact-finding mission on the Gaza conflict, upon the release of the mission’s official report and recommendations.

The 575-page report, which was forwarded to the Government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority this morning and posted on the website of the Human Rights Council, also concluded that evidence exists that Palestinian armed groups committed war crimes, as well as possibly crimes against humanity, in their repeated launching of rockets and mortars into southern Israel.

http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/6A7 ... ymdxZ.dpuf

So if you're going to use the Commission as a basis for your accusations about Israel committing war crime then you shouldn't be surprised when people who disagree with you point out the fact that Hamas did exactly the same things and got called for it in the same report.

Unless of course you think the Palestinians have the right to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity whereas Israel doesn't which, would show a complete lack of objectivity.

Good stuff. Since you're concerned about balance, it seems, how about also asking the pro-Israel side here to admit that Israel committed war crimes. Or even just that Israel isn't just the innocent victim, here, only "defending itself?" There isn't a poster on this site that's critical of Israel that hasn't condemned Hamas. Yet the pro-Israel side holds Israel blameless.

Unless of course you too see Israel as only the blameless victim of Hamas/Palestinian aggression here.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

You're absolutely correct about the Goldstone Fact Finding Mission claiming that Israel may have committed war crimes and quite possible crimes against humanity but and this is a big but, what you forgot to mention was that the same commission found that Hamas had committed the exact same alleged crimes as Israel.

$1:

There was evidence indicating Israel had committed serious violations of international human rights and humanitarian law during the Gaza conflict and actions amounting to war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity, it was reported today by the United Nations fact-finding mission on the Gaza conflict, upon the release of the mission’s official report and recommendations.

The 575-page report, which was forwarded to the Government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority this morning and posted on the website of the Human Rights Council, also concluded that evidence exists that Palestinian armed groups committed war crimes, as well as possibly crimes against humanity, in their repeated launching of rockets and mortars into southern Israel.

http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/6A7 ... ymdxZ.dpuf

So if you're going to use the Commission as a basis for your accusations about Israel committing war crime then you shouldn't be surprised when people who disagree with you point out the fact that Hamas did exactly the same things and got called for it in the same report.

Unless of course you think the Palestinians have the right to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity whereas Israel doesn't which, would show a complete lack of objectivity.

Good stuff. Since you're concerned about balance, it seems, how about also asking the pro-Israel side here to admit that Israel committed war crimes. Or even just that Israel isn't just the innocent victim, here, only "defending itself?" There isn't a poster on this site that's critical of Israel that hasn't condemned Hamas. Yet the pro-Israel side holds Israel blameless.

Unless of course you too see Israel as only the blameless victim of Hamas/Palestinian aggression here.

Well that was bullshit. Having some weepy anti-Israel poster make a basic statement of fact like, "Hamas is guilty too" is hardly the same level of condemnation Israel gets. Assuming equal culpability here, why the constant blasting of Israel while Palestine receives a polite but VERY rare, "They shouldn't be doing that".

How does the country that openly declared a war of extermination wind up with all the lefty sympathy? See, this is a point that all the anti-Israel types don't seem to comprehend. When you declare a war of extermination, you can't cry foul when your own civilians are killed. Unless you're a hypocritical piece of shit who lives by nothing but double standards.
But of course they don't have to cry foul since the anti-Israel types who know sweet fuck all about the history of the conflict, save for some sound bites and video, are more than happy to do it for them.

[andyt]

On this forum, we don't even get a weepy "Israel is guilty too."

As for wars of extermination, Israel is practicing that much more effectively with the settlements. Hamas has said they want to push Israel into the sea, Israel is bent on pushing the Palestinians into the river. (If not, look back a few posts about what a US official had to say about Israeli territorial expansion and what it meas to the future of Israel.) The only side that's acknowledged the right of the other side to exist are the Palestinians. How can Israel continually demand that from them, yet not be willing to reciprocate?


Let's hear from you, weepy or otherwise. Do you see Israel as bearing any responsibility for the current state of affairs?

As for condemnation of Israel, it gets absolutely none from the majority of posters here. In the MSM, despite Brah (and your's I think) paranoia, what I see is a slant towards Israel, just not as steep a slant as you'd like. It's continually asserted that Israel has a right to defend itself, but no mention of why that defense might be necessary. Y'all just freak out because the media actually reports on the casualties in Gaza, instead of doing the decent thing and just ignoring them.

[BartSimpson]

Delwin Delwin:

If you want to know the best way to breed terror in your country, kill 1000 innocent civilians and don't hold anyone to account for it.

You miss the point. Those so-called 'civilians' of yours are being held to account no different than were the civilians in Dresden, Frankfurt, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki.

If you support a criminal regime either by action, conscious inaction, or indifference then when the targets of that criminal regime strike back then you get the results of the government you either elected or tolerated.

As to holding to account those who would destroy these criminal regimes? I agree, we should hold them accountable for their actions the same as we always have.