[BartSimpson]

BRAH BRAH:

3 reasons why the Martin Mars water bomber isn't battling fire in Fort McMurray

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/martin-mars-water-bomber-fort-mcmuray-1.3571558
___________

$1:

Plane retired in 2013

The province ended its contract with the Coulson Group in 2013 to use the air tanker, opting to move to smaller aircraft more suitable to B.C.'s mountainous terrain, although it was used for one month in 2015 to fight wildfires in B.C.

The massive air tanker was built as a transport plane for the U.S. Navy in 1946 and is the largest fixed-wing water bomber in the world, with a capacity of more than 27,000 litres.

________

The plane was retired but it still could have contributed and Wayne Coulson and his crew were on standby but never received a request from the Alberta Government. The water bomber possibly could have made a difference but the fact a request wasn't even made is bad as Trudeau turning down Russia's offer of water bombers because even though Ft Mac has been saved the beast is still out of control and could shift direction back to Ft Mac or other towns.

Alberta never called California for help. The nonsensical claim that twelve aircraft were too many to manage over a fire the size of Rhode Island is indefensible. When we had the big Pasadena fire a few years ago the state had over eighty state and Air National Guard aircraft fighting the fire and without incident. And that was all in an area far smaller than the Fort McMurray fire.

Oh, and even with eighty fire fighting aircraft in operation scheduled flights at most LA airports were uninterrupted.

[andyt]

$1:

In all, about 2,400 homes and buildings burned in the fire, either completely or partly destroyed. But there were many victories as well. Firefighters saved about 25,000 buildings, which is believed to be 85 to 90 per cent of the city.

"Fort McMurray is still alive," said Allen, who knows this fire as well as anyone, and often refers to it as "a beast" or "an animal.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... -1.3572982

[peck420]

Bart,

I think there is going to be a lot of questions to be answered when everything is more controlled.

[BartSimpson]

peck420 peck420:

Bart,

I think there is going to be a lot of questions to be answered when everything is more controlled.

Indeed. It's just sad that so much nearby fire fighting capability was left idle while so many good people lost everything.

[andyt]

The question of water bombers has already been answered. Bombers can't put out a large fire, then can just help in slowing the fire down or directing it away from very important infrastructure. The fire grew very quickly, by the time they realized they had a problem, just throwing extra water bombers at it would have done nothing. One firefighter likened it to using an eyedropper on a campfire.

We get this question every year in BC about the Martin Mars and why it's not being used. People think it's magic, but in actuality it's very expensive and very limited in its usefulness. It also has a lot of downtime because the plane is so old.

Firefighting is expensive. If a province had huge resources to go all out on every fire, it would cost a fortune. And as we know, often it's better to just let a fire burn, so that combustible materials don't build up and the forest renews itself. I guess the fire being near Ft Mac they should/could have maybe foreseen the possibility of it expanding so rapidly and overrunning the city, thrown more resources at it when it was still fairly small.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

The question of water bombers has already been answered.

The aircraft are just an example.

Just California here, but we also have around 6,000 seasonal firefighters signed on for the summer season. No reason why we couldn't send a few hundred or a thousand of them to help out.

[andyt]

That I can't answer, except it would cost a fortune for diminishing returns. You can only throw so many people at a fire. But it is true that California has way more fire fighters available per hectare than Canada does. Remember tho that this fire grew huge very quickly. But the time it was realized that more firefighters were needed, it might have been too late. (If they were needed). With Ft Mac, what was needed were city type firefighters, not wildfire fighters, and the ones in Ft Mac seem to have done a good job. Again, if Alberta was willing to say damn the cost, as soon as a small fire was within possible reach of Ft Mac, they could have used wildfire fighters to throw up a fire break around the city. Then, when the fire didn't come anywhere close to the city, the righties would have been blaming Notley for being hysterical and wasting tax payer dollars. And he Ft Mac residents would have been pissed for all the bare ground that was throw up around the city.

[ShepherdsDog]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

peck420 peck420:

Bart,

I think there is going to be a lot of questions to be answered when everything is more controlled.

Indeed. It's just sad that so much nearby fire fighting capability was left idle while so many good people lost everything.

This is something only mother nature can put out.

[peck420]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

This is something only mother nature can put out.

Yup.

That was known Tuesday morning (May 2nd).

It was also known Tuesday morning that the fire had turned and was heading to FMac.

It had been stated on Monday (May 1st), that should that happen, it would be very perilous.

Why was there a 4 hour delay on evacuation notices? Why wasn't help from nearby municipalities requested at that point?

We got very lucky that things worked out the way they did, and the guys/gals on the ground did exceptional work, but there is still a considerable amount of decision and information processes that could have been handled much better.

[Thanos]

Not sure if under any circumstances the bombers would have been authorized to drop their payloads inside the town limits when the buildings began to burn. At that stage there were still too many evacuees milling about, the smoke above town was too dense, and the likelihood of an accident on the roads caused by a misplaced drop from above was too high. There's also fuel supply issues too, especially with the main airport shut down. The river and Lake Gregoire could have handled the planes but there could be a significant lack of proper infrastructure available within immediate range that could handle planes that large.

[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

Not sure if under any circumstances the bombers would have been authorized to drop their payloads inside the town limits when the buildings began to burn.

I think these aircraft can be put to some very creative uses:

[Alta_redneck]

Thanos Thanos:

Not sure if under any circumstances the bombers would have been authorized to drop their payloads inside the town limits when the buildings began to burn. At that stage there were still too many evacuees milling about, the smoke above town was too dense, and the likelihood of an accident on the roads caused by a misplaced drop from above was too high. There's also fuel supply issues too, especially with the main airport shut down. The river and Lake Gregoire could have handled the planes but there could be a significant lack of proper infrastructure available within immediate range that could handle planes that large.

Just for the record those 4 engine Yellow Electra's that were dropping retardant were most likely flying round trips from Lac La Biche, that's where Air Spray's base is for that corner of the Province.

[BRAH]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

BRAH BRAH:

3 reasons why the Martin Mars water bomber isn't battling fire in Fort McMurray

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/martin-mars-water-bomber-fort-mcmuray-1.3571558
___________

$1:

Plane retired in 2013

The province ended its contract with the Coulson Group in 2013 to use the air tanker, opting to move to smaller aircraft more suitable to B.C.'s mountainous terrain, although it was used for one month in 2015 to fight wildfires in B.C.

The massive air tanker was built as a transport plane for the U.S. Navy in 1946 and is the largest fixed-wing water bomber in the world, with a capacity of more than 27,000 litres.

________

The plane was retired but it still could have contributed and Wayne Coulson and his crew were on standby but never received a request from the Alberta Government. The water bomber possibly could have made a difference but the fact a request wasn't even made is bad as Trudeau turning down Russia's offer of water bombers because even though Ft Mac has been saved the beast is still out of control and could shift direction back to Ft Mac or other towns.

Alberta never called California for help. The nonsensical claim that twelve aircraft were too many to manage over a fire the size of Rhode Island is indefensible. When we had the big Pasadena fire a few years ago the state had over eighty state and Air National Guard aircraft fighting the fire and without incident. And that was all in an area far smaller than the Fort McMurray fire.

Oh, and even with eighty fire fighting aircraft in operation scheduled flights at most LA airports were uninterrupted.

The buck stops with Notley and Trudeau because they're the leaders it sounds like whoever is advising them doesn't have a Fucking clue on what assets outside of Alberta and Canada are available, FAIL!

[BRAH]

Calgary pilot breaks rules to fly Fort McMurray animals to shelter

https://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary/2016/05/09/calgary-pilot-flies-displaced-fort-mcmurray-animals-shelter.html?platform=hootsuite
____________

[BartSimpson]

BRAH BRAH:

[b]Calgary pilot breaks rules to fly Fort McMurray animals to shelter

He didn't really break any rules (it's a disaster, after all. Rules just get set aside during such times) but he did score some serious goodwill for Suncor!!