[EyeBrock]

Yea, RR, I read that this morning. Lorne usually hits the nail on the head. "Soft power" is bollocks.

Most things soft don't do what's required. They bend on the way in to tight spots.

Hard is the way to go. Real power is not replaced by nice talking. Peace through superior fire-power.

[ridenrain]

It's the whole peacekeeping lie. Our troops are out on little UN boyscout adventures, waving the flag and when shit happens like in Bosnia or Rwanda, they don't even have enough geat to kep themselves safe, let alone protect others.
The simple fact is the left has no idea what an army really does and why it's needed.

[DerbyX]

The right has no idea what diplomacy is and thinks the army is some magic mallet you use to smash anything and everything to solve everything.

[Bacardi4206]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Bodah Bodah:

bootlegga bootlegga:

It's ridiculous that our relations with the world's SECOND largest economy is crap.

Considering all china produces is crap anyways, I dont care. Infact I wish they would get pissed with us and stop sending us their crap.

Take a look at your PC or under the hood of your car and get back to me...

Just because majority of the products we enjoy is Chinese made doesn't mean we are useless without there products. We do have people here who can do the same thing China does. However they cannot because unfortunetly China produces the same products much cheaper with cheaper labor. That's hard to beat.

Without China, you just have to fill the gaps with Canadian made products which I would not be upset with. I'd much rather a little more expensive products that was Canadian made over a cheap product that was poorly made and was likely to break soon.

[EyeBrock]

The Right, as you say, are made up of a lot of guys who have been to war like many of us in this forum.

Soldiers realise that armed conflict is not to be taken lightly, but sometimes there is no option left but to pick up your rifle.

No soldier who has seen combat really want's to see it again but we realise that you have to sometimes fight for what you believe in.

These advocates of 'soft power' maybe well meaning, but they just encourage the bad guys and we end up having to fight anyway.

[gonavy47]

herbie herbie:

gonavy47 gonavy47:

Canada's stature on the world stage was always weakened by the liberals policy of not having a strong and well-equiped military. We are still living this legacy, decades of under-funding and the long road back from that mistake
.

Are you fucking kidding?
We were respected for NOT being Washington's yappy fucking poodle.
You'd have to be retarded to keep a military at Cold War levels when it's fucking over, wouldn't you?

You can't protect a country of this size with 20,000 men. That is insane. And yet that was the liberals policy. But first, let's help our enemies by taking away any "esprit de corps", and most of the senior officers through unification.
Not the Americans yappy poodle? Are you kidding me? Trudeau's policy was to rely on the Americans to defend us! That's not being someone's yappy poodle, that's being someone's "Butt-Boy". How is that going to protect our sovereignty?

[DerbyX]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

The Right, as you say, are made up of a lot of guys who have been to war like many of us in this forum.

Soldiers realise that armed conflict is not to be taken lightly, but sometimes there is no option left but to pick up your rifle.

No soldier who has seen combat really want's to see it again but we realise that you have to sometimes fight for what you believe in.

These advocates of 'soft power' maybe well meaning, but they just encourage the bad guys and we end up having to fight anyway.

The trouble is that I have yet to see the right display an attitude that war is a last resort and it seems that all the conflict is because the other sides right wingers think the same thing.

Perhaps we should just make the world like UFC. We'll pick a few islands and let the willing duke it out amongst themselves and leave us peace loving lefties to run the world.

Hey, I just might be onto something.

[gonavy47]

DerbyX DerbyX:

The right has no idea what diplomacy is and thinks the army is some magic mallet you use to smash anything and everything to solve everything.

The armed forces of a country can be a mighty persuasive bargaining tool in diplomacy. The lack of same is a detriment to being taken seriously. We haven't been taken seriously on the world stage in a long, long time.

[DerbyX]

On the contrary we were taken much more seriously in the past through peace-keeping efforts and our influenced waned with it. We weren't a player in any way shape or form under Mulroney and we went to war under him. We had influence or at least respect in economic circles when we were running surpluses.

Harper hasn't raised our profile or won us respect in the least and if you think being a respected country means we need to walk around the globe with a rifle in our hands then clearly you don't know what respect is.

It also sets the very bad precedent that all the other countries around the world need large and well equipped forces as well as the will to use them to get respect, countries like Iran, NK, China, etc.

Wonderful.

[uwish]

Derbyx said

"I might say the same thing about your anti-Liberalism. Liberals don't measure Canadianism by anti-Americanism (we are the guys cheering on Obama).

Only a Conservative would say that."



LIBERAL'S DON'T??? Thats news to me, in the previous liberal government, how many MP's were quoted spouting Anti-American BS??? 4 or was it 5?? I lost count in the end...

[commanderkai]

DerbyX DerbyX:

On the contrary we were taken much more seriously in the past through peace-keeping efforts and our influenced waned with it.

When? During the 50s and 60s where we actually had an army to back peacekeeping efforts?

[ASLplease]

Derby, unless you are capable of seeing the differences between a canadian walking around the globe with a rifle in hand, and someone like the Taliban, then I don't suppose that you'll ever understand where the 'respect' part comes from.

[EyeBrock]

DerbyX DerbyX:

On the contrary we were taken much more seriously in the past through peace-keeping efforts and our influenced waned with it. We weren't a player in any way shape or form under Mulroney and we went to war under him. We had influence or at least respect in economic circles when we were running surpluses.

Harper hasn't raised our profile or won us respect in the least and if you think being a respected country means we need to walk around the globe with a rifle in our hands then clearly you don't know what respect is.

It also sets the very bad precedent that all the other countries around the world need large and well equipped forces as well as the will to use them to get respect, countries like Iran, NK, China, etc.

Wonderful.

Come on Derby, who took us seriously because of peacekeeping? Other wimpy nations?
Nobody seemed to Dallaire too seriously in Rwanda.

Nobody took DART too seriously when they couldn't deploy to the Tsunami region because we relied on rented aircraft. Now we have C17's.

The Taliban take us seriously now, the Yanks see that we have an effective military and the UK media constantly refer to Canadian operations in their media.

Look at the Aussies. Nobody earmarks them as 'peacekeepers' or warmongers. But they are a regional power with the ability to back up diplomacy with armed force.

That's what gets you respect. Democracy with the ability to project force to back up what you say.

Peacekeeping was a myth fed to a gullible public by politicians who didn't see the need for a Canadian military.

Who are the top peacekeeping nations these days? Pakistan, Nigeria, Bangladesh.

I rest my case.

[uwish]

point and match!

[DerbyX]

So winning the Nobel peace prize wasn't respect? I think you are relying too much on our lack of respect garnered as our deployments waned throughout the 70s and 80s.

The Aussies are certainly not a regional power and have no more ability to back themselves up with force then we do. In fact their ability as well as ours is almost dependant entirely on the US and quite frankly thats not respect I need nor want.

Again you consider force = respect. I'd say the countries that are buying into that are the very countries we seem to be criticizing lately.