[OnTheIce]

Curtman Curtman:

andyt andyt:

Curtman Curtman:

The obligations of repaying our debt to these people living in 3rd world conditions somehow gets forgotten.

Could we at least get a ballpark figure on what that debt is? When is enough enough? I mean if you buy into that we all live on stolen Native land, then it will never be enough, will it? We should just make them our overlords and get to work so we can pay them proper tribute in perpetuity.

I'm not aware of any expiry date on the treaties. If you follow oti's logic you choose to live here and choose to own that debt so you can choose t move elsewhere if you feel its too much of a burdon.

Tell me something, Curtman.

You chose to stay on a reserve for the free ride. That's fine, and that's your right.

Why is it on us, you and I the taxpayers, to be responsible for fixing someones FREE HOUSE they fail to maintain?

These people have no responsibility, no accountability and no self respect. Until they gain that by having to work for something, we'll be stuck in this path forever.

I have a few light bulbs out in my basement, can you come over and change them for me or should I do like the natives and live in the dark hoping someone will come fix it for me?

[Curtman]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Tell me something, Curtman.

You chose to stay on a reserve for the free ride. That's fine, and that's your right.

Why is it on us, you and I the taxpayers, to be responsible for fixing someones FREE HOUSE they fail to maintain?

These people have no responsibility, no accountability and no self respect. Until they gain that by having to work for something, we'll be stuck in this path forever.

I have a few light bulbs out in my basement, can you come over and change them for me or should I do like the natives and live in the dark hoping someone will come fix it for me?

I've never lived on a reserve. My father moved here from Hungary and my mother's family came from England a few generations ago.

It's on you and I because our forefathers chose to disrupt these people's lives through failed experiments like the residential school program that inflicted horrible suffering on these people. It's our burden now because we inherited it. Life is getting better on the reserves. Compared to 50 years ago things are a LOT better. Nobody forces them at gunpoint to give up their children anymore, that alone is great progress. I don't know if it will take another 50 or 100 years, but for you to say that we don't feel like correcting the mistake anymore is disgusting. Get over it.

[DrCaleb]

Curtman Curtman:

It's on you and I because our forefathers chose to disrupt these people's lives through failed experiments like the residential school program that inflicted horrible suffering on these people. It's our burden now because we inherited it.

No, it's on you. I choose not to inherit the guilt of other people's forefathers short sighted vision. (my forefathers did none of those things.)

Curtman Curtman:

Life is getting better on the reserves. Compared to 50 years ago things are a LOT better. Nobody forces them at gunpoint to give up their children anymore, that alone is great progress. I don't know if it will take another 50 or 100 years, but for you to say that we don't feel like correcting the mistake anymore is disgusting. Get over it.

The first TV we had in our household was black and white. The phone (installed in the late 50's) was a rotary dial party line - meaning we shared it with several other houses in the area. We used to call Brasil nuts "nigger toes".

Now I have a flat screen HD tv. I carry 2 cell phones sometimes, and they both fit in my pocket at once. And I felt guilty for using the 'n' word in the last paragraph.


Change does not take 50 - 100 years. They can choose to control their own destiny now, if they want to. And it's not our fault if they don't. Get over it.

[Curtman]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Change does not take 50 - 100 years. They can choose to control their own destiny now, if they want to. And it's not our fault if they don't. Get over it.

And you can move elsewhere if you don't feel like honoring the treaties that our country signed on to. It's not their fault that you are the one paying the bill, you make that choice by staying here. If you buy a house that has a lien against it, you can't say its not your debt because it is. Your country has a lien against it, and it's your debt to pay. Crying about it won't change a thing.

[DrCaleb]

Curtman Curtman:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Change does not take 50 - 100 years. They can choose to control their own destiny now, if they want to. And it's not our fault if they don't. Get over it.

And you can move elsewhere if you don't feel like honoring the treaties that our country signed on to. It's not their fault that you are the one paying the bill, you make that choice by staying here. If you buy a house that has a lien against it, you can't say its not your debt because it is. Your country has a lien against it, and it's your debt to pay. Crying about it won't change a thing.

Jump to conclusions much? I didn't say any of those things. I said they can control their own destiny if they want to, and we don't have to carry legacy guilt about whether they choose to or not.

[martin14]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Curtman Curtman:

And you can move elsewhere if you don't feel like honoring the treaties that our country signed on to. It's not their fault that you are the one paying the bill, you make that choice by staying here. If you buy a house that has a lien against it, you can't say its not your debt because it is. Your country has a lien against it, and it's your debt to pay. Crying about it won't change a thing.

Jump to conclusions much? I didn't say any of those things. I said they can control their own destiny if they want to, and we don't have to carry legacy guilt about whether they choose to or not.

Interesting thing that shitstain Curtboy uses "YOUR" country,

in a way that says it's not "HIS" country.

Obviously personal responsibility isn't high on Curt's list.


But then just before has the audacity to try and come after me for being
on the road for a while.

Yes, I have been out, enriching my life, traveling to about 20% of the world,
opening my eyes to a whole bunch of new things, helping others make money and get ahead,

while he sits at home and runs drugs.



Well done Curt.

[OnTheIce]

Curtman Curtman:

I've never lived on a reserve. My father moved here from Hungary and my mother's family came from England a few generations ago.

It's on you and I because our forefathers chose to disrupt these people's lives through failed experiments like the residential school program that inflicted horrible suffering on these people. It's our burden now because we inherited it. Life is getting better on the reserves. Compared to 50 years ago things are a LOT better. Nobody forces them at gunpoint to give up their children anymore, that alone is great progress. I don't know if it will take another 50 or 100 years, but for you to say that we don't feel like correcting the mistake anymore is disgusting. Get over it.

To be blunt, you don't have a clue what's going on within a reserve. You've probably only ever driven through one.

I, on the other hand, have over a decade of experience living with and dealing with these people.

Do Germans pay for housing and everything to Jewish people in Germany?

Do Americans buy homes and land for blacks in America?

A lot of bad has happened to various groups over the years. You don't owe them everything for the rest of eternity because people long ago fucked up.

You apologize, you move on.

I have seen the actions of these people first hand. They aren't interested in evolving, they are interested in getting more money for themselves and for their band and continue to live just as they did before.

Canada has come to the table, tried to help them with billions of dollars in aid, doctors, nurses, teachers, you name it, we've tried it.

Natives have to change. We've tried everything.

[Curtman]

martin14 martin14:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Curtman Curtman:

And you can move elsewhere if you don't feel like honoring the treaties that our country signed on to. It's not their fault that you are the one paying the bill, you make that choice by staying here. If you buy a house that has a lien against it, you can't say its not your debt because it is. Your country has a lien against it, and it's your debt to pay. Crying about it won't change a thing.

Jump to conclusions much? I didn't say any of those things. I said they can control their own destiny if they want to, and we don't have to carry legacy guilt about whether they choose to or not.

Interesting thing that shitstain Curtboy uses "YOUR" country,

in a way that says it's not "HIS" country.

Obviously personal responsibility isn't high on Curt's list.


But then just before has the audacity to try and come after me for being
on the road for a while.

Yes, I have been out, enriching my life, traveling to about 20% of the world,
opening my eyes to a whole bunch of new things, helping others make money and get ahead,

while he sits at home and runs drugs.



Well done Curt.

Typical. When you realize you're full of it, you resort to libel. We have laws against that here you know.

[ShepherdsDog]

martin14 martin14:

Curtman Curtman:

On behalf of Canada, thanks for staying out of our country. We don't need any more of your kind.

hmmm,, guess you missed the newsflash....


I'm back.



So go fuck yourself, shitstain.

he's just pissed because he's ineligible for a passport martin.

$1:

you resort to libel. We have laws against that here you know.

ooooooo....are you scared martin? has the Big bad Curtman scared you with his threats and encyclopedic knowledge of the law ?

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Canada has come to the table, tried to help them with billions of dollars in aid, doctors, nurses, teachers,

It's not anti-native to admit that what we've tried to do to help and accommodate Natives hasn't worked. In fact, it's made things worse.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

you name it, we've tried it

Natives have to change. We've tried everything.

Well, I hope we haven't tried everything. I wish I had the solution, but I don't. But I do know that all the money and special treatment that's been given the Natives has only made matters worse.

[martin14]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

martin14 martin14:

Curtman Curtman:

On behalf of Canada, thanks for staying out of our country. We don't need any more of your kind.

hmmm,, guess you missed the newsflash....


I'm back.



So go fuck yourself, shitstain.

he's just pissed because he's ineligible for a passport martin.

$1:

you resort to libel. We have laws against that here you know.

ooooooo....are you scared martin? has the Big bad Curtman scared you with his threats and encyclopedic knowledge of the law ?

[Prof_Chomsky]

Does anyone know exactly what the Indian Act provides for in simple points? As in, what are they granted, what has Canada promised, what are their obligations?
I for one don’t know all the specifics so always stayed out of it. Inherently the whole thing seems wrong and I hate that we continually pussy foot around the problem, especially when armed men claim an entire town and the police do nothing about it. But, as I said I don’t know the facts. I grew up close to a reserve and went to school with some Natives so I got some tainted perspectives both directions…

Anyone here know well enough to summarize it so dumb people can understand?

[andyt]

Here's a good start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Act but it doesn't go into what special deals it gives indians.

There are lots of Indians who don't want to get rid of the act because it gives them tax excerpt status and special provisions for the feds to supply housing, health care, education etc. Mostly what they seem to want is being given royalties for economic activities on their traditional lands, but retain their tax free and welfare status.

I'm all for getting rid of the act, and having Indians be like any other Canadian. But he constitution prohibits that, and then there is the question of what we owe them for taking their land. I think we'll be jawing about this for some time to come.

[andyt]

Here's a good start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Act but it doesn't go into what special deals it gives indians.

There are lots of Indians who don't want to get rid of the act because it gives them tax exempt status and special provisions for the feds to supply housing, health care, education etc. Mostly what they seem to want is being given royalties for economic activities on their traditional lands, but retain their tax free and welfare status.

I'm all for getting rid of the act, and having Indians be like any other Canadian. But he constitution prohibits that, and then there is the question of what we owe them for taking their land. I think we'll be jawing about this for some time to come.

[Curtman]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

ooooooo....are you scared martin? has the Big bad Curtman scared you with his threats and encyclopedic knowledge of the law ?

Oh there's tweedle-dumb.

It beats just making stuff up like you two.