[stokes]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Hyack Hyack:

Hmmmmm....the RCMP don't seem to have a problem with turbans

As an ex-pat Brit I can say that I have never had a problem with turbans and uniforms. Sikhs have been fighting with and for the British for generations. They have a noble warrior mentality which really is little different to the Anglo-Saxons.
When I came to Canada in 1994 the whole 'turban/rcmp/legion' thing was on the go and I always thought that the turban and red serge went well together, kind of 'Bengal Lancer' look.

I have to agree with with einsapper, Air Command is hardly the rufty-tufty outfit a real warrior joins, but hey, he is 35! Good for him though.
Personally I think all this 'look a brown guy joined up' stuff is a tad pathetic.

He's a Canadian. He joined up, good for him. End Ex.

Agreed...he should be a poster child for recruiting!!

[Gunnair]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Im with the camp that you can wear whatever you want on your own time, but there is a reason they call it a uniform. Im not just against the Sikhs, I also think that if you’re a native you should not be allowed to have a pony tail or a Mohawk. I know Streaker is going to come on and say I am a racist or a bigot, but this is just my personal opinion, I am not going to push it on to fellow soldiers. I don’t feel I am being racist at all, I just feel that special status should not be given to anyone because of your race or religion. Gender, yes, I am totally cool with women having a different dress code from men.

Well, I disagree, but we'll agree to disagree on it. I have wondered, however if our difficulties in recruiting visible minorities would not be alleivated if we offered them their own regiments - be it a Sikh regiment, Chinese, Native Canadian... whatever. It would allow it to reflect their culture and values just like say, a Highland or Quebecois regiment does.

I could certainly see someone complaining about segregation, but I would certainly disagree on that.

Thoughts?

[roger-roger]

Wow, thats insane. Its hard to man a reserve regiment with mixed races alone, it would be impossible to get one of a specific race. Its also dangerously close to what the Nazis did in WWII. The thing about the Highlanders or the Vandoos (sp) anyone can join them. I dont think the reason minorities are not joining the military is due to the fact they would be the minority. When you are indoctrinated into the military you are a soldier, a cog in the military machine. If you want to be different at home be different at home. When I see you at work you're not a Sikh, Jew, Gay, French, White or anything else. You are a soldier; if you want a job where you can celebrate your difference from everyone else go work at HMV.

[lyonhart]

Ok now I think it is time to retire.

[Gunnair]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Wow, thats insane. Its hard to man a reserve regiment with mixed races alone, it would be impossible to get one of a specific race. Its also dangerously close to what the Nazis did in WWII. The thing about the Highlanders or the Vandoos (sp) anyone can join them. I dont think the reason minorities are not joining the military is due to the fact they would be the minority. When you are indoctrinated into the military you are a soldier, a cog in the military machine. If you want to be different at home be different at home. When I see you at work you're not a Sikh, Jew, Gay, French, White or anything else. You are a soldier; if you want a job where you can celebrate your difference from everyone else go work at HMV.

Seems to be a bit emotive for you. Why so insane? There are areas like the lowermainland that have very large numbers of minorities - and if it was a militia regiment, then the numbers do not have to be massive. It is also what the British have done, and still do and it is what we do with our Franco regiments. Single race regiments have worked in the past to attract those with similar cultures and traditions - it seems now that PC idealists pooh pooh it for all their reasons.

Would I be wrong in assuming that you wish to remove the regimental system and adopt a more American approach - one uniform, one set of traditions, one cap badge. I`ve come across a few soldiers who are like that - very anti-regimental system. Can`t say I understand it but hey, it ain`t my part ship. Then again, most of the soldiers I`ve met think it`s crazy to sail in a ship rolling around the oggie for weeks at a time.

[Terence]

I have some serious reservations about soldiers in this capacity. Especially on international missions. Do you think a Hassidic Jew with the long hair locks would be as accepted in Afghanistan as the rest of us would? I don't know what part of "uniform" people are not understanding. Uniformity doesn't bend.

I don't want or need to know what religion a soldier is anymore than I need to know strangers sexual orientation or political views. Pacifists don't join the forces due to their conviction. Why do people who can't follow rules WANT to break sacred traditions? To me it is political.

[TattoodGirl]

I thought the CF was in need of recruits? This man wears a smaller turban so that the helmet will fit over, what is wrong with that?

I think alot of folk should get some education on what Sikhs have done in the past WW's. 300,000 Sikhs were in the British Indian Army in WWII alone, all wearing turbans, and majority in combatant roles. If Turban wearing Sikhs were good enough then, why not now?

[Gunnair]

InternetChatter InternetChatter:

I have some serious reservations about soldiers in this capacity. Especially on international missions. Do you think a Hassidic Jew with the long hair locks would be as accepted in Afghanistan as the rest of us would? I don't know what part of "uniform" people are not understanding. Uniformity doesn't bend.

I don't want or need to know what religion a soldier is anymore than I need to know strangers sexual orientation or political views. Pacifists don't join the forces due to their conviction. Why do people who can't follow rules WANT to break sacred traditions? To me it is political.

I'm not sure about it's about being political, or about people who can't follow rules, but it is certainly about attracting recruits. Jews are already allowed to wear the kippah and Christians can wear crosses. I would also wonder if the Afhgans accept the rest of you in quite the way you think. You are after all, Christians and infidels, are you not?

By the way, uniformity does bend. Take a look at the uniforms of the CF and you will see a lot of bending away from a single uniform to encompass cultural artifacts to allow for ethnic identity.

[Terence]

Because we are a secular nation. Why keep the charter, the constitution? Why stay with democracy? Tradition and culture. People are buried in our war memorials all over Europe for these things and many would have rather died than see them pissed on.

When the forces went to a single uniform due to Paul Hellyer and Pierre Trudeau, the military became a Tory bastion, which won't change anytime soon. Cause and effect at it's finest. My uncle who was career Air Force and Liberal for more than 20 years, refused to ever vote Liberal these 35+ years since that disaster.

[Gunnair]

TattoodGirl TattoodGirl:

I thought the CF was in need of recruits? This man wears a smaller turban so that the helmet will fit over, what is wrong with that?

I think alot of folk should get some education on what Sikhs have done in the past WW's. 300,000 Sikhs were in the British Indian Army in WWII alone, all wearing turbans, and majority in combatant roles. If Turban wearing Sikhs were good enough then, why not now?

The British had no issue recruiting and employing 800,000 Indians in WWI. No problem allowing them to keep their cultural identity. I think they realized it attracted recruits and made 'em fight better.

[TattoodGirl]

Sikhs fought along side and with us on those fields and gave their lives for the same cause. How is someone serving their country pissing on their graves?

[TattoodGirl]

Gunnair Gunnair:

TattoodGirl TattoodGirl:

I thought the CF was in need of recruits? This man wears a smaller turban so that the helmet will fit over, what is wrong with that?

I think alot of folk should get some education on what Sikhs have done in the past WW's. 300,000 Sikhs were in the British Indian Army in WWII alone, all wearing turbans, and majority in combatant roles. If Turban wearing Sikhs were good enough then, why not now?

The British had no issue recruiting and employing 800,000 Indians in WWI. No problem allowing them to keep their cultural identity. I think they realized it attracted recruits and made 'em fight better.

Or including the Kohima Epitaph in the Festival of Remembrance religious ceremony at Royal Albert Hall.

[Gunnair]

InternetChatter InternetChatter:

Because we are a secular nation. Why keep the charter, the constitution? Why stay with democracy? Tradition and culture. People are buried in our war memorials all over Europe for these things and many would have rather died than see them pissed on.

When the forces went to a single uniform due to Paul Hellyer and Pierre Trudeau, the military became a Tory bastion, which won't change anytime soon. Cause and effect at it's finest. My uncle who was career Air Force and Liberal for more than 20 years, refused to ever vote Liberal these 35+ years since that disaster.

Sorry, but I'm not seeing your point here. What has the charter, constitution, and democracy have to do with allowing cultural accoutrements on CF uniforms?

Also, we don't have a single uniform anymore, so could you expand on your second point? Conservatism may be alive and well in the Cf, but wouldn't it be ironic if it was as adament for the singular uniform as were Trudeau and Hellyer.

[Terence]

Are there no Canadian sacred cows? What if religious extremists of various ethnicities (religious right included) made the majority. What are you willing to give up in pusuit of this "inclusion" cult. Abortion rights, gay rights, give equal footing yo sharia courts?

It is as if everything we have done to get where we are today was for naught. I am a big fan of Christopher Hitchens. Western civilization is not for sale, or something I want to part with for a few votes. Western liberalism is why we are a free nation, to abandon all of the dressings and heritage is not going to help us sustain it. I fear for the liberal western world that capitulates the truly good and noble advances we have made culturally and philosophically.

[TattoodGirl]

Ahhh...I see...no answers to the questions posed, just spewing bigotry. You will fit in well with the resident racist, Hwackoff