[Newsbot]

Title: Canada Post goes to court in fight over large community mailboxes | CTV News
Category: Misc CDN
Posted By: N_Fiddledog
Date: 2015-05-26 08:53:02
Canadian

[Freakinoldguy]

Go Hamilton Go.

Fuck Canada post and their unsecured, soul sucking super boxes. As a crown corporation their mandate shouldn't be profibility anymore than it should be to suffer continual losses. Simply put, it should be to serve the taxpayer with the services they were created for and that includes house to house mail delivery.

[OnTheIce]

Hamilton will lose this battle and rightfully so.

House to house delivery just isn't required anymore. It's time CP and Hamilton gets with the times.

[Lemmy]

You don't understand Hamilton's beef. The city isn't against the idea of superboxes. It's not a case of anyone being behind the times. The city just wants to be consulted about where the boxes go so that they doesn't interfere with infrastructure, like buried cables/utilities, and urban planning, like pedestrian/automobile traffic, construction/development, etc. So Hamilton ought to win this case on common sense grounds.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

You don't understand Hamilton's beef. The city isn't against the idea of superboxes. It's not a case of anyone being behind the times. The city just wants to be consulted about where the boxes go so that they doesn't interfere with infrastructure, like buried cables/utilities, and urban planning, like pedestrian/automobile traffic, construction/development, etc. So Hamilton ought to win this case on common sense grounds.

Sure I do. It's politics and I don't care for it.

The boxes are secured on a concrete pad that won't interfere with any buried lines as they're not that deep.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Sure I do. It's politics and I don't care for it.

The boxes are secured on a concrete pad that won't interfere with any buried lines as they're not that deep.

How does Canada Post know that that concrete pad isn't on top of something it shouldn't be? How do they know that the City of Hamilton is planning on moving a street, or issuing a building permit for the place where the box was set? Or widening a sidewalk? Or adding a bike lane?

You don't get it. Hamilton isn't against the boxes. They just want to be part of the discussion about where they get placed. That doesn't seem like too much to ask, since it's municipal government's job to do urban and transit planning. You say you don't like the politics. But don't let your union busting agenda get in the way of common sense. The city ought to get a say in where the goddamn things go.

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Lemmy Lemmy:

You don't understand Hamilton's beef. The city isn't against the idea of superboxes. It's not a case of anyone being behind the times. The city just wants to be consulted about where the boxes go so that they doesn't interfere with infrastructure, like buried cables/utilities, and urban planning, like pedestrian/automobile traffic, construction/development, etc. So Hamilton ought to win this case on common sense grounds.

Sure I do. It's politics and I don't care for it.

The boxes are secured on a concrete pad that won't interfere with any buried lines as they're not that deep.

$1:

Canada Post cuts gas line while installing mailbox

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/56013 ... g-mailbox/

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

How does Canada Post know that that concrete pad isn't on top of something it shouldn't be? How do they know that the City of Hamilton is planning on moving a street, or issuing a building permit for the place where the box was set? Or widening a sidewalk? Or adding a bike lane?

Because, in Ontario, you have to call On Call to mark lines before you dig. It's a legal requirement.

As for all the other stuff, if that does happen, the box can be moved. It's not that big of a deal.

Lemmy Lemmy:

You don't get it. Hamilton isn't against the boxes. They just want to be part of the discussion about where they get placed. That doesn't seem like too much to ask, since it's municipal government's job to do urban and transit planning. You say you don't like the politics. But don't let your union busting agenda get in the way of common sense. The city ought to get a say in where the goddamn things go.

Hamilton has to look like their doing their part to share the voice of the citizen who don't want the boxes. They can't stop it but they're trying to drag their feet to say to the people "look, we tried".

This has nothing to do with union busting. This has everything to do with what makes sense for Canada Post and it's huge decrease in letter volumes. It doesn't make financial sense to have people deliver mail door-to-door.

[OnTheIce]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

$1:

Canada Post cuts gas line while installing mailbox

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/56013 ... g-mailbox/

I guess you glossed over:

$1:

A Union Gas spokesperson confirmed the one-inch plastic gas line wasn't mapped because it was put in by homeowners, not the company.

By law, companies who install gas lines have to register them and have them mapped.

Had the pipe been put at the proper depth, marked with caution tape and property registered, it would have been marked.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Because, in Ontario, you have to call On Call to mark lines before you dig. It's a legal requirement.

As for all the other stuff, if that does happen, the box can be moved. It's not that big of a deal.

It may not be "that big of a deal" but it needn't be any deal at all if they'd just consult with the city planners before they placed the boxes! I know we don't often agree, but I at least gave you credit for some common sense.

OTI OTI:

Hamilton has to look like their doing their part to share the voice of the citizen who don't want the boxes. They can't stop it but they're trying to drag their feet to say to the people "look, we tried".

That's you reading more into this than there is. Again, Hamilton isn't fighting the boxes' existence. They're fighting to be part of the planning process about where they go. That's all.

OTI OTI:

This has nothing to do with union busting. This has everything to do with what makes sense for Canada Post and it's huge decrease in letter volumes. It doesn't make financial sense to have people deliver mail door-to-door.

I agree with you about door-delivery. This case, however, has nothing to do with the debate over delivery vs. superbox. Hamilton's onboard with the boxes. They just want a say in where they go. Seriously, does that really seem too much to ask?

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

That's you reading more into this than there is. Again, Hamilton isn't fighting the boxes' existence. They're fighting to be part of the planning process about where they go. That's all.

Not the case at all.

Hamilton has been fighting these boxes for months. In fact, in numerous media reports from last summer to today, Hamilton was looking to "battle" Canada Post on the end of home delivery. They also referred to them as "inconvenient and inaccessible". This move was going to create a "hardship" for their constituents.

Now, they have learned they cannot fight them, they's just trying to drag their feet to prolong the inevitable to provide positive political optics.

Lemmy Lemmy:

I agree with you about door-delivery. This case, however, has nothing to do with the debate over delivery vs. superbox. Hamilton's onboard with the boxes. They just want a say in where they go. Seriously, does that really seem too much to ask?

As I said above, it's far more than that if you look at the issue it it's entirety.

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

$1:

Canada Post cuts gas line while installing mailbox

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/56013 ... g-mailbox/

I guess you glossed over:

$1:

A Union Gas spokesperson confirmed the one-inch plastic gas line wasn't mapped because it was put in by homeowners, not the company.

By law, companies who install gas lines have to register them and have them mapped.

Had the pipe been put at the proper depth, marked with caution tape and property registered, it would have been marked.

I guess you missed that since they don't apply for permits, they never get information about whether a utility line exists or not, regardless if it is installed correctly. Since they choose right of ways to install their boxes, this will happen more frequently because right of ways is where utility lines go!

If they applied for the permit, then they could be excused for hitting improperly installed gas lines.

[OnTheIce]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I guess you missed that since they don't apply for permits, they never get information about whether a utility line exists or not, regardless if it is installed correctly. Since they choose right of ways to install their boxes, this will happen more frequently because right of ways is where utility lines go!

If they applied for the permit, then they could be excused for hitting improperly installed gas lines.

Permits don't come with a locate nor are they required for the permit so your point is irrelevant.

By law, they have to use a locate service but a permit is not required.

Had the home-owner installed the line legally, this wouldn't have been an issue.

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I guess you missed that since they don't apply for permits, they never get information about whether a utility line exists or not, regardless if it is installed correctly. Since they choose right of ways to install their boxes, this will happen more frequently because right of ways is where utility lines go!

If they applied for the permit, then they could be excused for hitting improperly installed gas lines.

Permits don't come with a locate nor are they required for the permit so your point is irrelevant.

By law, they have to use a locate service but a permit is not required.

Had the home-owner installed the line legally, this wouldn't have been an issue.

Building permits take into account easements and utility corridors, as well as future development plans. The City of Hamilton, as every major city does, requires a permit be issued and drawing on file in order to asses whether the new construction will affect future development.

$1:

Why do I need a Building Permit?
A Building Permit gives you the legal authorization
to start construction or demolition of a building
project in accordance with approved drawings and
specifications. You cannot lawfully begin construction
or demolition without first applying for and obtaining a
Building Permit.
Building Permits are issued by the Building Services
Division and are reviewed for compliance with the
Ontario Building Code Zoning By-Laws and other
applicable provincial and municipal regulations.
Building Permits are necessary to ensure that zoning
requirements, fire and structural safety standards and
other building standards are met.

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/346 ... ermits.pdf

By applying for the permit, the permit would be denied because of the utilities, and the gas leak would never have happened. Your assertion that the mailboxes are on a concrete pad and therefore won't interfere with utilities is irrelevant, because they actually have done so.

[OnTheIce]

Your out of your depth.

Canada Post doesn't have to apply for permits for this type of project as they are not constructing a building or structure.

Permit or not, this gas leak would have occurred because the line was not registered nor buried at the proper depth.