[OnTheIce]

FWIW Caleb, my family has been in the renovation/construction business for 30+ years.

Personally, I've pulled about 50 permits in my life for a variety of projects at my home, cottage and for customers of the family business. I have two open permits right now for my cottage that will likely be closed off within the next two weeks.

[DrCaleb]

Good for you!

My point still stands however. Canada Post has no inherent right to build on city land without consulting the City first.

[OnTheIce]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Good for you!

My point still stands however. Canada Post has no inherent right to build on city land without consulting the City first.

Sure they do, hence the reason they started to build and do so all over Canada.

You're welcome to have your opinion on the subject, but that doesn't mean it's right.

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Good for you!

My point still stands however. Canada Post has no inherent right to build on city land without consulting the City first.

Sure they do, hence the reason they started to build and do so all over Canada.

You're welcome to have your opinion on the subject, but that doesn't mean it's right.

No, they don't, or there wouldn't be a court fight over it.

[Zipperfish]

This seems to be the absis of the court case--whether a federal Crown agency (who are asserting that they are, in fact, the Crown) can ignore municipal regulations.

I think Canada Post has a pretty good case from the point of view. They are in the business of delivering mail, and this is certainly central to that business. The regulation doesn't seem to have the merit of any overarching safety concerns.

Not sure whether a for-profit Crown corporation would be considered "The Crown" by the courts though. That will be interesting.

[OnTheIce]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

No, they don't, or there wouldn't be a court fight over it.

The court fight means nothing with respect to whether it's legal or not. It's politicking.

It's dragging out the process and the City staff and lawyers either don't understand the law or are proceeding to satisfy political optics.

Safe to say, Hamilton will lose.

[Zipperfish]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Safe to say, Hamilton will lose.

On The Ice On The Ice:

You're welcome to have your opinion on the subject, but that doesn't mean it's right.

[Brenda]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Permit or not, this gas leak would have occurred because the line was not registered nor buried at the proper depth.

Just for shits and giggles...
When BC gas shot a new gas-line underneath my yard (in 1986), they shot it through the existing storm drain.
When we were cleaning the old (clay) storm drain (after having the village go in with a camera snake and telling me what I was seeing was a tree root), we hit a gas line and broke it.

Fortis and the fire department came in after I called 911 and they had trouble finding where the gas line was. After 2.5 hours of digging, randomly, still nothing. Eventually, they shut it off (clamped it) where it came off the street into my yard.
After the leak was fixed, we found out that the neighbours gas line is on my property as well.

The 'Call before you dig' guy asked me for my dig-number. He was completely surprised when I told him I wasn't digging, but cleaning out a storm drain.

Fortis replaced the storm drain. I never got my above ground pool fixed or replaced. The broken line was right underneath it.

Moral of the story... LOTS of lines are not registered/mapped.

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

It doesn't make financial sense to have people deliver mail door-to-door.

Then privatize the mail and parcel delivery services and let a private firm handle it.

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

No, they don't, or there wouldn't be a court fight over it.

The court fight means nothing with respect to whether it's legal or not. It's politicking.

It's not politics, its the legality of the construction. Municipalities have certain legal rights, and one of them is determining land use inside their boundaries. With your vast experience with permits, you know that building things without a permit gives the City the right to have you tear down that garage or playhouse or whatever - or send people over to tear it down for you. They control what is built, to what standards and where it is built with the permit system.

Canada Post has no more right to build on City land than does Hydro One to build a new high power line and transmission towers right through the city. Canada Post has no right to block future roads, or bike lanes or whatever, just in the name of 'the junkmail must go through'.

This is an issue every city is looking at, because it affects every city in Canada. If Canada Post has this right, then the Cities' own rights have been nullified and any Crown Corporation can do whatever it wants. I don't even want to think of the financial consequences if that is allowed to happen.

[Zipperfish]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

This is an issue every city is looking at, because it affects every city in Canada. If Canada Post has this right, then the Cities' own rights have been nullified and any Crown Corporation can do whatever it wants. I don't even want to think of the financial consequences if that is allowed to happen.

A Crown Corporation can't do whatever it wants. In BC, the Motor Vehcile Act is provincial legislation. That doesn't mean that posties can zoom around at light speed and ignore traffic lights. There is nothing in their business that would be signficantly impacted and the Motor Vehicle Act has a strong public safety argument in its favour.

This, I think, is what the courts will weigh.

[DrCaleb]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

This is an issue every city is looking at, because it affects every city in Canada. If Canada Post has this right, then the Cities' own rights have been nullified and any Crown Corporation can do whatever it wants. I don't even want to think of the financial consequences if that is allowed to happen.

A Crown Corporation can't do whatever it wants. In BC, the Motor Vehcile Act is provincial legislation. That doesn't mean that posties can zoom around at light speed and ignore traffic lights. There is nothing in their business that would be signficantly impacted and the Motor Vehicle Act has a strong public safety argument in its favour.

This, I think, is what the courts will weigh.

As you say above, Canada Post is in the business of delivering mail. In that case, they can halt putting up Super mailboxes and start building Post Offices where people can come get their mail. Problem solved.

[OnTheIce]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

It's not politics, its the legality of the construction. Municipalities have certain legal rights, and one of them is determining land use inside their boundaries. With your vast experience with permits, you know that building things without a permit gives the City the right to have you tear down that garage or playhouse or whatever - or send people over to tear it down for you. They control what is built, to what standards and where it is built with the permit system.

If it's not politics, why wasn't it an issue when they installed the super boxes in the other 1/2 of Hamilton?

You seem to have a hard time understand that the Federal Government or the "Crown" doesn't abide by the same laws as a typical home owner in Canada.

While Hamilton may be able to regulate it with their new bylaw, they cannot stop the process nor do they have to pay the fees.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Canada Post has no more right to build on City land than does Hydro One to build a new high power line and transmission towers right through the city. Canada Post has no right to block future roads, or bike lanes or whatever, just in the name of 'the junkmail must go through'.

Yes, they do. Your comparing a hydro company to a Crown corporation. Apples and oranges.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

This is an issue every city is looking at, because it affects every city in Canada. If Canada Post has this right, then the Cities' own rights have been nullified and any Crown Corporation can do whatever it wants. I don't even want to think of the financial consequences if that is allowed to happen.

It doesn't affect every City in Canada because many, including where I live, already have this and have for the last 30 years.

It's going to be a waste of money for Hamilton taxpayers and in the end, the boxes will still get installed and door-to-door will be gone.

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

It's not politics, its the legality of the construction. Municipalities have certain legal rights, and one of them is determining land use inside their boundaries. With your vast experience with permits, you know that building things without a permit gives the City the right to have you tear down that garage or playhouse or whatever - or send people over to tear it down for you. They control what is built, to what standards and where it is built with the permit system.

If it's not politics, why wasn't it an issue when they installed the super boxes in the other 1/2 of Hamilton?

You seem to have a hard time understand that the Federal Government or the "Crown" doesn't abide by the same laws as a typical home owner in Canada.

While Hamilton may be able to regulate it with their new bylaw, they cannot stop the process nor do they have to pay the fees.

Who said it want's an issue on the other half of Hamilton? The Crown must still abide by the law, and the rights of Municipalities are set in law.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Canada Post has no more right to build on City land than does Hydro One to build a new high power line and transmission towers right through the city. Canada Post has no right to block future roads, or bike lanes or whatever, just in the name of 'the junkmail must go through'.

Yes, they do. Your comparing a hydro company to a Crown corporation. Apples and oranges.

Hydro One is a Crown Corporation. Apples to Apples.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

This is an issue every city is looking at, because it affects every city in Canada. If Canada Post has this right, then the Cities' own rights have been nullified and any Crown Corporation can do whatever it wants. I don't even want to think of the financial consequences if that is allowed to happen.

It doesn't affect every City in Canada because many, including where I live, already have this and have for the last 30 years.

It's going to be a waste of money for Hamilton taxpayers and in the end, the boxes will still get installed and door-to-door will be gone.

If a Crown Corporation can forego laws that go back to Lord Durhams' time (you know, that silly Constitution Act, 92(8)), then yes it affects every city and municipality in Canada. It's not about the mailboxes, it's about the municipalities right to determine land use within it's borders.

[OnTheIce]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Who said it want's an issue on the other half of Hamilton? The Crown must still abide by the law, and the rights of Municipalities are set in law.

It wasn't an issue. That's why you didn't hear about it. 2/3 of Canada already get their mail this way already. NIMBY'ism.

You have a very hard time understanding the law or you continue to ignore what you've been told.

The laws of the Crown trump any little municipal bylaw. The Canada Post Act trumps Hamilton's municipal bylaws with respect to the building code.