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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:55 am
 


$1:
David Frum: What Sarah Palin should have said about Tucson shooting

The shooting in Arizona shocked the U.S. into grief – and presented Sarah Palin with an immediate political problem: her now-notorious gunsight map.

Palin scrubbed the map from her Palin PAC website, and then issued the following statement on her Facebook page:

My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today’s tragic shooting in Arizona. On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice.

Then, as Palin came under a barrage of criticism, her supporters stepped forward to offer defenses. The gunsights were not really gunsights. The criticism of Palin was unfair, even “obscene.”
And of course, they had a point. Obviously, Palin never intended to summon people to harm Representative Giffords. There was no evidence that the shooter was a Palin follower, and in short order it became evident that he was actuated by a serious mental illness. Whatever you think about Palin’s “don’t retreat, reload” rhetoric, it could not be blamed for this crime.

So – argument won? No. Argument lost.

Palin failed to appreciate the question being posed to her. That question was not: “Are you culpable for the shooting?” The question was: “Having put this unfortunate image on the record, can you respond to the shooting in a way that demonstrates your larger humanity? And possibly also your potential to serve as leader of the entire nation?”

Here it seems to me are the elements of such an answer.

1) Take the accusation seriously. That does not mean you accept the accusation, nor even that you explicitly acknowledge it. But understand why people – not all of them necessarily out to get you – might feel negatively about this past action in light of current events.

2) Express real grief and sincere compassion. “My condolences are offered” is not the language of someone whose heart is much troubled.

3) Be visible. They’re laying flowers at the congressional office of Gabrielle Giffords. Any reason you can’t join them?

4) Join the conversation. You have often complained about out-of-bounds personal comments directed toward you (eg, David Letterman’s). Now try to show toward others the same empathy that you demand from others. Innocent as you feel yourself to be, try to imagine how it must have felt to be Giffords during this past campaign season: guns showing up at her rallies, her offices vandalized, death threats – and your map as the finishing touch. Imagine how her family must feel. Speak to them.

5) Challenge your opponents. In the past hours, many people have cited President Obama’s (borrowed) line about bringing a knife to a gun fight. They have a point! At the same time as you publicly commit to raise your game, invite your political opponents to raise theirs. Instead of deflecting the blame, share it.

6) Raise the issue of mental health. Remember how you were going to be an advocate for children with special needs? Can’t more be done to intervene to help potentially dangerous schizophrenics – and to protect society from the risk of violence? (Read this by Dr. Sally Satel to start your thinking on the subject.) The best way to underscore that Loughner was not motivated by Tea Party ideology is to remind them of what did impel him.

7) Think what you would like – not your supporters – but your opponents to say about you. “She was tough, but never a hater.” “No matter how strongly she disagreed, she was always gracious.” “I might not agree with her answer, but I could see she had thought hard about it.” Then, having thought about it, go be that person.

Last: suppose you were president right now. The country would want you to say something about this terrible crime. What is that something? Say it now.

Of course, Palin has yet to give the answer called for by events. Instead, her rapid response operation has focused on pounding home the message that Palin is innocent, that she has been unfairly maligned by hostile critics. Which in this case happened to be a perfectly credible message. And also perfectly inadequate. It was about Palin, not about Giffords. It was defensive, not inspiring. And it was petty at a moment when Palin had been handed perhaps her last clear chance to show herself presidentially magnanimous.

National Post

Read more: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... z1AeGHEYJM


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:55 am
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:
Gunnair Gunnair:
The saddest part about this is six people were killed in this attack. Aside from the judge, I haven't heard one word about them. I guess the innocent people (including a nine year old girl), the people who vote the congressmen/women in, don't make large enough headlines to waste any ink on.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/09/arizona.shooting.girl/index.html?hpt=C1

Finally. Those folks deserve some sort of tribute. They were true victims in this. They weren't the targets.

Thanks, Gunny.


CBC is running stories today as well. I`m not surprised it`s taken a day or so for these to kick in. Really, I doubt people who`ve just lost loved ones are going to run out and grant interviews in the first hours or day of such a massive tragedy.[/quote]
**************************************************************************

Actually,Gunny, MSNBC and Cnn both did interviews with the little Christina's parents.

MSNBC on Sunday with her Mom, and a couple hours later, CNN with both parents.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:01 am
 


Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:
The saddest part about this is six people were killed in this attack. Aside from the judge, I haven't heard one word about them. I guess the innocent people (including a nine year old girl), the people who vote the congressmen/women in, don't make large enough headlines to waste any ink on.

Where have you been for the past few decades, welcome to our media!

Yes, it is all a shame. I've never even heard the names of some of these victims in these articles.



If you look at that neo-con rag, the National Post, they have 5 pages on the shooting and a bio and picture of those who were killed on a full page.

And that's a big newspaper with lots of space for you kids who just read the free news sheets.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:02 am
 


Yogi Yogi:
Gunnair Gunnair:
wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:

Finally. Those folks deserve some sort of tribute. They were true victims in this. They weren't the targets.

Thanks, Gunny.


CBC is running stories today as well. I`m not surprised it`s taken a day or so for these to kick in. Really, I doubt people who`ve just lost loved ones are going to run out and grant interviews in the first hours or day of such a massive tragedy.

**************************************************************************

Actually,Gunny, MSNBC and Cnn both did interviews with the little Christina's parents.

MSNBC on Sunday with her Mom, and a couple hours later, CNN with both parents.[/quote]

Ahh, thanks. Missed those. I saw the interview with the father this morning.

Tragedy.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:03 am
 


Yogi Yogi:
I`m not surprised it`s taken a day or so for these to kick in. Really, I doubt people who`ve just lost loved ones are going to run out and grant interviews in the first hours or day of such a massive tragedy.

That's a very good point. I guess it just struck a nerve that everything coming in revolved around Gifford, and there wasn't so much as well wishing mentioned for the innocent bystanders that were killed. You're right though - that was likely out of respect for the families of the deceased. And rightfully so.

I feel much better now. Thanks guys! :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:14 am
 


wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:
Yogi Yogi:
I`m not surprised it`s taken a day or so for these to kick in. Really, I doubt people who`ve just lost loved ones are going to run out and grant interviews in the first hours or day of such a massive tragedy.

That's a very good point. I guess it just struck a nerve that everything coming in revolved around Gifford, and there wasn't so much as well wishing mentioned for the innocent bystanders that were killed. You're right though - that was likely out of respect for the families of the deceased. And rightfully so.

I feel much better now. Thanks guys! :lol:


Oops... I wrote that. Yogi correctly pointed out that some interviews began yesterday.

That being said, more information is coming out this morning.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:24 am
 


Everybody in here, including me, have fallen prey to the human impulse to become instant experts on everything and claim to to know all on why this incident occurred.

Twenty people were injured, 6 of them dead. Let's deal with that at the moment and let the people who ARE experts find out the rest them we can have a more knowledgeable discussion.

We are all good people here, that is why we love this site, let's work with our higher instincts and not fall prey to arguing from ignorance.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:30 am
 


GreenTiger GreenTiger:
Everybody in here, including me, have fallen prey to the human impulse to become instant experts on everything and claim to to know all on why this incident occurred.

Twenty people were injured, 6 of them dead. Let's deal with that at the moment and let the people who ARE experts find out the rest them we can have a more knowledgeable discussion.

We are all good people here, that is why we love this site, let's work with our higher instincts and not fall prey to arguing from ignorance.


If you feel like stifling discourse and playing thread cop, go somewhere else to do it.

Everyone here has been engaging in this in a relatively level-headed approach, bringing in their own opinion as well as others. It`s healthy to discuss this (as long as it stays mostly civil) so deal with it or stay away from the thread.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:43 am
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
If you feel like stifling discourse and playing thread cop, go somewhere else to do it.


But, of course, it's okay for you to do it. :roll:

post1763199#p1763199


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:00 am
 


redhatmamma redhatmamma:
Rather than reply to the rhetoric here I'll post this as it is very apprapro
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 96964.html
The Arizona Tragedy and the Politics of Blood Libel
$1:
Those who purport to care about the tenor of political discourse don't help civil debate when they seize on any pretext to call their political opponents accomplices to murder.

Shortly after November's electoral defeat for the Democrats, pollster Mark Penn appeared on Chris Matthews's TV show and remarked that what President Obama needed to reconnect with the American people was another Oklahoma City bombing. To judge from the reaction to Saturday's tragic shootings in Arizona, many on the left (and in the press) agree, and for a while hoped that Jared Lee Loughner's killing spree might fill the bill.

With only the barest outline of events available, pundits and reporters seemed to agree that the massacre had to be the fault of the tea party movement in general, and of Sarah Palin in particular. Why? Because they had created, in New York Times columnist Paul Krugman's words, a "climate of hate."

The critics were a bit short on particulars as to what that meant. Mrs. Palin has used some martial metaphors—"lock and load"—and talked about "targeting" opponents. But as media writer Howard Kurtz noted in The Daily Beast, such metaphors are common in politics. Palin critic Markos Moulitsas, on his Daily Kos blog, had even included Rep. Gabrielle Giffords's district on a list of congressional districts "bullseyed" for primary challenges. When Democrats use language like this—or even harsher language like Mr. Obama's famous remark, in Philadelphia during the 2008 campaign, "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun"—it's just evidence of high spirits, apparently. But if Republicans do it, it somehow creates a climate of hate. cont...


Short on particulars? I don't think so. Perhaps this writer can be forgiven. Clearly he has never heard of Glenn Beck or Sharron Angle, or tea party slogans like "Impeach the Muslim Marxist." :roll:

This sort of "oh the left does it too" stuff just doesn't meet muster. The salient fact here is that the political right in the US has radicalized. Talk of the end times, upcoming political cataclysm and the violent overthrow of government is commonplace.

This mass murder and attempted execution of congresswoman will become a defining moment in the current domestic turmoil in the US, whether or not the crime was politically motivated or the random act of a deranged killer.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:07 am
 


I dunno Zip. A criminally insane killer will do their stuff regardless of stupid rhetoric. I think people are looking for an opportunity to score partisan points out of this in the US.

They have enough well-armed loonies down there. I think a more salient question is how did this guy get access to a firearm, not what Palin's campaign posters had as content.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:12 am
 


A co-worker of mine observed the irony that one of the few places you can go to in Arizona and expect to find a crowd of unarmed people is at a Democrat meeting. :idea:

Maybe more Democrats need to assert their right to keep and bear arms so they can shoot people who try to shoot them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:14 am
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
I dunno Zip. A criminally insane killer will do their stuff regardless of stupid rhetoric. I think people are looking for an opportunity to score partisan points out of this in the US.

They have enough well-armed loonies down there. I think a more salient question is how did this guy get access to a firearm, not what Palin's campaign posters had as content.


Well, the jury's out on this guy's motivations. But despite his motivations, this will be a defining event because of whom he chose for a victim.

I predict that the radical right in the US will shrug this off and continue on with their new revolution, so the nastiness will just get worse from here on in. Sure glad I don't live there right now.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:15 am
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
A co-worker of mine observed the irony that one of the few places you can go to in Arizona and expect to find a crowd of unarmed people is at a Democrat meeting. :idea:

Maybe more Democrats need to assert their right to keep and bear arms so they can shoot people who try to shoot them.


Clearly it's a the nine-year old girl's fault that she's dead for not being armed.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:16 am
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
I dunno Zip. A criminally insane killer will do their stuff regardless of stupid rhetoric. I think people are looking for an opportunity to score partisan points out of this in the US.

They have enough well-armed loonies down there. I think a more salient question is how did this guy get access to a firearm, not what Palin's campaign posters had as content.


Yes, how he got the weapon is an excellent point. I'm not an expert but people who are tell me that a Glock is not really a 'civilan use' pistol, especially with an extended clip.

Dispensing Weapons that like over the counter doesn't seem like a good idea.


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