[Gunnair]

andyt andyt:

All I've heard from the Albertans on this forum, except PA9, is how it's Alberta's right to push that oil thru BC. Nothing about lets figure out the environmental hazards and what to do about them before we even think about building that pipe. Keeping the environmental risks at an acceptable level may just make the project uneconomical to build. Especially with producers in Alberta already pulling back.

No I don't think they've said that at all. What many are doing is equating Clarke's stupidity to popular support in BC's population which I don't believe us true.

The majority do not want the pipeline......period.

[andyt]

bootlegga bootlegga:

If BCers would prefer a 100 car train barrelling through national parks at 80 kmh, so be it. After one of those monsters derails and fouls the whole of central BC, people will be wishing they had built a pipeline.

Wow. You really mean that? Fuck you BC, we're polluting you one way or another - all you get to do is pick the method. And you wonder why we're very leary of this project?

Wonder what Albertans will say when we do get a pipeline break or worse yet a marine spill. Oh well, too bad, so sad, not our problem. You guys got a few construction jobs out of the deal, you should be happy.

[Gunnair]

bootlegga bootlegga:

andyt andyt:

Yep. Our risk, your reward.

Yeah, that's right, because you know, the pipeline will be built entirely with Alberta workers, all the workers in Kitimat will be Albertans, it will magically start at the BC-Alberta border, etc.

There's plenty of risk/reward for everyone - frankly, BC is starting to sound more and more like Oliver Twist (or Quebec) "Please give us some more" - these days.

Like I said, whatever.

Once oil hits a certain price, it's coming whether you want it too or not. The only question is how.

If BCers would prefer a 100 car train barrelling through national parks at 80 kmh, so be it. After one of those monsters derails and fouls the whole of central BC, people will be wishing they had built a pipeline.

Careful, because Albertans are sounding equally petulant here.

Frankly, I don't think there is much support for increasing the amount if oil shipped through here period. CN has had more than enough accidents over the last few years to take that option off the table.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

All I've heard from the Albertans on this forum, except PA9, is how it's Alberta's right to push that oil thru BC. Nothing about lets figure out the environmental hazards and what to do about them before we even think about building that pipe. Keeping the environmental risks at an acceptable level may just make the project uneconomical to build. Especially with producers in Alberta already pulling back.

Please point to the post in which any of us has said, "it's Alberta's right to push that oil thru BC" or some derivative of that.

The conversation has been more like like a gangster (Clark) trying to extort protection money from a shopkeeper (Alberta government), and the shopkeeper saying, "go piss up a rope."

Here's what I said on page 9;

$1:

Yeah, that's pretty much my attitude as well. I'd like to see it get done to lessen our dependence on the US as a trading partner as well as the boon to the economy it will be. However, I'm not interested in doing it at any cost.

But, like any troll, you blithely ignored it and continued with your Alberta bashing.

If you don't like people telling you to fuck off after you spit in their face, stop spitting in their face. It's that simple.

[andyt]

Just read back here what you've said in this thread - "it's coming whether you like it or not" And you say I'm spitting in your face? And Alberta bashing? Saying that the project shouldn't go unless it has very high standards of risk management and BC is indemnified is Alberta bashing? Saying to Albertans how about we solve the environmental issues, if possible and economically feasible, is Alberta bashing? I see more BC bashing, where our desire to protect the environment is just ignored.

Hell, I'm way more open to this project than Gunnair. But start pushing us around with "it's coming, like it or not" and I'll join him on the barricades real quick. As will most of BC.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

bootlegga bootlegga:

If BCers would prefer a 100 car train barrelling through national parks at 80 kmh, so be it. After one of those monsters derails and fouls the whole of central BC, people will be wishing they had built a pipeline.

Wow. You really mean that? Fuck you BC, we're polluting you one way or another - all you get to do is pick the method. And you wonder why we're very leary of this project?

Wonder what Albertans will say when we do get a pipeline break or worse yet a marine spill. Oh well, too bad, so sad, not our problem. You guys got a few construction jobs out of the deal, you should be happy.

Translation = I'm too fucking dumb to understand a damned thing.

You sound like you think I'm shipping the stuff, or DrC is. Well, it's not.

It's big oil companies - almost all of which are based in other countries.

All they see a product that they want to get to market at the highest price - by the cheapest method. That method is a pipeline. If you aren't interested in that, then they'll go the next cheapest route. Block that one, and they'll find another way. And so on, and so on and so on...

I don't now, nor have I ever worked in the oil patch (unless you count manning a till at a gas station the patch). I stand nothing to gain from this whatsoever.

I'm just being honest and telling you the truth. I sure as hell don't want an oil spill anywhere - be in a lake near my home (look up CN and Wabuman Lake), off the coast of Bc or in the mountains of BC.

It's the same for the fishing industry, movie fishery, the lumber industry, etc. that form a big part of the BC economy. They are all largely foreign-owned and just want to make money.

If you can't understand that, then you're just acting dumb like Xort was a couple pages ago.

[andyt]

Quite some backpedalling there. If you don't want an oil spill, talk more about that than the project is going ahead, no matter what BC says.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

Just read back here what you've said in this thread - "it's coming whether you like it or not" And you say I'm spitting in your face? And Alberta bashing? Saying that the project shouldn't go unless it has very high standards of risk management and BC is indemnified is Alberta bashing? Saying to Albertans how about we solve the environmental issues, if possible and economically feasible, is Alberta bashing? I see more BC bashing, where our desire to protect the environment is just ignored.

Hell, I'm way more open to this project than Gunnair. But start pushing us around with "it's coming, like it or not" and I'll join him on the barricades real quick. As will most of BC.

See the above post for the "it's coming one way or the other" bit, because it is.

And it matters not one fig who forms your government, I guarantee it. The oil companies will leave bags of money anywhere they have to to get their product to market at world prices.

If you haven't figured out how the world works with all your posts bitching about multi-national corporations, the 1% and everything else, there's nothing I can do.

andyt andyt:

Something I guess you Albertans just can't understand. We actually value our coast.

Translation = Albertans don't give a fuck about the environment!

Yeah, I'd say that's spitting in Albertans faces.

[Gunnair]

Well, frankly, if BC does not want it, it'll be stopped irrespective of what a corporation wants. Eventually bad publicity, time in court, and a slow down through civil disobedience will suggest that BC will not be the place to do this business.

See War in the Woods as a bit of an indicator.

[andyt]

Well show it then by expressing concern about our coast. As I said, the only one I heard it from is PA9.

We're about to elect a government that's come out against the pipeline no matter what the reward. I guess the oil companies can even buy that opposition with enough cash. And that's fine - enough cash can make the risk truly minimal. The right port, the right tankers, the right support structure (tugs etc), tunneling under water ways, quick spill response, etc. But lets see all that on the table and nailed down before we even think about doing this project. I actually want it to go ahead, I think we should be exploiting our resources. But in an intelligent way. And the recent Enbridge spills and responses don't reassure in that department.

And maybe it makes more sense for us to pull together as a nation and ship that oil east. No Dutch disease, no dependence on foreign oil. Have he govt subsidize the project if necessary, if that is feasible. I'd much rather see that than just helping China kick the shit out of us economically. But we're not grown up enough as a country for that, I guess.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

Well show it then by expressing concern about our coast. As I said, the only one I heard it from is PA9.

I can only assume you have been selectively reading again.

[andyt]

ASS U ME?

[Unsound]

andyt andyt:

You'd have to have a really good arm for you to toss garbage in the sea.

I drive out to the coast twice a year just to throw out my household garbage, and the oil from my oil changes.

andyt andyt:

But look at all the Albertan's comments - none are about the environment, none mention the marine component.

I take it back, PA9 does get it. None of the rest of you have talked about it, just that it's your constitutional right to push that oil thru the pipe.

Can't be bothered to reread every post by every Albertan here, but my thought on the matter, and I believe I'm pretty close to the rest of my provincemen(provincialmen?), is that BC has every right to do what they have to to protect the environment. And not just the right, but the responsibility. Get whatever you can out of the oil companies, the tanker companies, whoever. They're the ones moving the oil they can pay for it. It has NOTHING to with Alberta the province. We charge the oil companies royalties to take the stuff out of the ground. I'm sure you can find a way to charge them something to move it. But you can't ask for a cut of our royalties. And that's what Clark is trying to do.

[bootlegga]

Unsound Unsound:

andyt andyt:

You'd have to have a really good arm for you to toss garbage in the sea.

I drive out to the coast twice a year just to throw out my household garbage, and the oil from my oil changes.

I used to do that too - now I just drive to Mount Robson. Why waste all that gas when I can kill an entire ecosystem right from the source?

/sarcasm off

Unsound Unsound:

andyt andyt:

But look at all the Albertan's comments - none are about the environment, none mention the marine component.

I take it back, PA9 does get it. None of the rest of you have talked about it, just that it's your constitutional right to push that oil thru the pipe.

Can't be bothered to reread every post by every Albertan here, but my thought on the matter, and I believe I'm pretty close to the rest of my provincemen(provincialmen?), is that BC has every right to do what they have to to protect the environment. And not just the right, but the responsibility. Get whatever you can out of the oil companies, the tanker companies, whoever. They're the ones moving the oil they can pay for it. It has NOTHING to with Alberta the province. We charge the oil companies royalties to take the stuff out of the ground. I'm sure you can find a way to charge them something to move it. But you can't ask for a cut of our royalties. And that's what Clark is trying to do.

[Thanos]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Wow. For a second there I thougt some pouty separatist from Quebec showed up.

Oh noez! Petty Officer Knobb, and chief ship's bully, is back on deck! Hide before he notices you, scrubbers!