[Curtman]

peck420 peck420:

Curtman Curtman:

Why is she responsible for the deplorable conditions? She's been chief since August 27, 2010. I never "championed the one leader" at all, I just haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that she doesn't mean well and want to improve her community like most every Canadian.

Your joking right? This is Theresa Spence we are talking about here. A woman that rolled in a luxury vehicle and went on tropical vacations while her people lived in squalor.

Yea, she was in it for the people all right. As long as they continued to let her manage the money with her husband.

That woman is a joke, and epitomizes everything that is wrong with politics.

Well the topic is that she was re-elected. I'm asking FOG, or you, or anyone who cares about Attawapiskat. Who should have been elected?

[peck420]

Curtman Curtman:

Well the topic is that she was re-elected. I'm asking FOG, or you, or anyone who cares about Attawapiskat. Who should have been elected?

FOG will have to speak for himself.

My opinion:

I don't care who they elect. I do care that the current dictator is doing everything in her power to limit who can vote. If they are foolish enough to elect her again, at that point, then they can suffer her.

Overall, nothing is ever going to change at Attawapiskat. It is an unsustainable location. We can accept that, and act accordingly, or we can continue to fork over money to pretend that it will last.

[ShepherdsDog]

Curtman Curtman:

That's because we're new. 100,000 years is not a long time. We haven't been around long enough to diverge into different races, nobody was breeding us to create some, and we created globalization before we could, and we were very good at trade before that.

No, we're not that recent, as science has pointed out. Modern humans from Africa are about 200 000 years old, and possibly older. They only started leaving Africa about 75 000 ago in large numbers. Homo (sapiens) neanderthalensis, moved into Europe and Western Asia almost 800 000 years and became distinct from other Homo sapiens 500 000 years ago. It's scientific fact that Europeans and Western Asians mixed with this older branch of humanity and possibly others. It's even been speculated that Homo sapiens sapiens moving into eastern Asia encountered surviving populations of Homo erectus, an even earlier hominid, and successfully interbred with them. In the endhowever, this is really no different than dogs, wolves and coyotes mating, rather than humans and chimps. If we ever diverge into separate species, it'll be due to genetic engineering, or far in the distant future, where we somehow become cut off from each other on distant worlds for tens of thousands of years.

[Curtman]

peck420 peck420:

Curtman Curtman:

Well the topic is that she was re-elected. I'm asking FOG, or you, or anyone who cares about Attawapiskat. Who should have been elected?

FOG will have to speak for himself.

My opinion:

I don't care who they elect. I do care that the current dictator is doing everything in her power to limit who can vote. If they are foolish enough to elect her again, at that point, then they can suffer her.

Overall, nothing is ever going to change at Attawapiskat. It is an unsustainable location. We can accept that, and act accordingly, or we can continue to fork over money to pretend that it will last.

Well that's all I'm saying. You get the best of the lot. That's how we ended up with Harper apparently. Yay democracy!

[peck420]

Curtman Curtman:

Well that's all I'm saying. You get the best of the lot. That's how we ended up with Harper apparently. Yay democracy!

How is that even comparable?

For Harper to be even remotely comparable, he would have had to of won while disallowing Ontario and Quebec to vote. Did that happen? Nope. He won, fair and square.

Theresa on the other hand...

[Curtman]

peck420 peck420:

For Harper to be even remotely comparable, he would have had to of won while disallowing Ontario and Quebec to vote. Did that happen? Nope. He won, fair and square.

Oh for sure, fair and square. Minus the election overspending, the in-and-out schemes, the robocalls directing voters to incorrect voting locations, etc.

peck420 peck420:

Theresa on the other hand...

Theresa what? Mail-in ballots were allowed in previous elections, but Theresa Spence eliminated those?

[peck420]

Curtman Curtman:

Oh for sure, fair and square. Minus the election overspending, the in-and-out schemes, the robocalls directing voters to incorrect voting locations, etc.

Which I'm sure you have proof of Harper doing?

$1:

Theresa what? Mail-in ballots were allowed in previous elections, but Theresa Spence eliminated those?

From the article:

$1:

Remote ballots not allowed
Meanwhile, those who live off-reserve have been unable to cast their vote. The Congress of Aboriginal Peoples has urged the Attawapiskat First Nation to postpone band council elections until all members, living on or off-reserve, have had a chance to cast a ballot.

The group says it's unfair to people who live outside the remote northern Ontario community to have to cast their vote in person. Voting went ahead Tuesday despite the complaint.

According to Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada, the Attawapiskat First Nation has a total registered population of 3,472. Of that, 1,489 people — nearly half— live off-reserve.

FFS, Curt, even the other reserves are calling her out on this bullshit.

[Curtman]

peck420 peck420:

Curtman Curtman:

Oh for sure, fair and square. Minus the election overspending, the in-and-out schemes, the robocalls directing voters to incorrect voting locations, etc.

Which I'm sure you have proof of Harper doing?

$1:

Theresa what? Mail-in ballots were allowed in previous elections, but Theresa Spence eliminated those?

From the article:

$1:

Remote ballots not allowed
Meanwhile, those who live off-reserve have been unable to cast their vote. The Congress of Aboriginal Peoples has urged the Attawapiskat First Nation to postpone band council elections until all members, living on or off-reserve, have had a chance to cast a ballot.

The group says it's unfair to people who live outside the remote northern Ontario community to have to cast their vote in person. Voting went ahead Tuesday despite the complaint.

According to Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada, the Attawapiskat First Nation has a total registered population of 3,472. Of that, 1,489 people — nearly half— live off-reserve.

FFS, Curt, even the other reserves are calling her out on this bullshit.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08/29 ... ntroversy/

$1:

Lavallee had called for Attawapiskat to postpone its elections until a process was established guaranteeing off-reserve members reasonable access to vote. “I’m sad for the people who were not able to vote in the election. They’ve been denied their fundamental right of enfranchisement,” she said.

Hookimaw wrote letters to the chief and council urging them to establish an election system where off-reserve members wouldn’t have to make the expensive trip home just to cast their ballots. But he said his concerns were ignored.

Lavallee said she gets multiple phone calls a month about the problem of First Nations lacking provisions for off-reserve voting, such as mail-in ballots or remote polling stations.

“It’s gotten to the point now that something has to be done,” she said. “This is about a fundamental point of law.”

Lavallee is calling for a review of First Nations’ election codes, in conjunction with aboriginal organizations.

Most First Nations in Canada (342), including Attawapiskat, operate elections under community-designed custom codes. Another 239 hold elections in accordance with the federal Indian Act.

A special committee of Attawapiskat band members drafted a new code in early 2010 to bring the band in line with the Corbiere decision. Community members voted to approve it, but the former chief and band council decided not to ratify it since only 74 of 2,166 eligible voters cast a ballot.

If that's another bureaucracy that Canadians are willing to pay for, the let's do that. Why wasn't it an issue before their election though? Why is it Theresa Spence's fault?

"nearly half— live off-reserve" means nearly half pay the same income taxes you and I do BTW. Living on-reserve doesn't have enough of a tax incentive to pay-off.

[peck420]

Curtman Curtman:

If that's another bureaucracy that Canadians are willing to pay for, the let's do that.

Another bureaucracy? That's new. A review and restructuring of a current bureaucracy does not make a new bureaucracy.

$1:

Why wasn't it an issue before their election though? Why is it Theresa Spence's fault?

Just get out from under a rock? My recollection has Canadians calling for a review of how reserves operate going back as far as I can remember. This is not a new issue, Theresa is just the latest in a very long line of abusers.

$1:

"nearly half— live off-reserve" means nearly half pay the same income taxes you and I do BTW. Living on-reserve doesn't have enough of a tax incentive to pay-off.

Your going to have to point out where I stated money was the problem? I have no illusions. If we are going to keep this particular reserve, it will cost extra. My share will be counted in pennies. So, I really don't care what decision is made as long as one is actually made. I do find it ironic that the 'keepers of nature' don't see a problem with maintaining unsustainable habitats, but that is for another thread.

[housewife]

Boy you guys drift alot.

But to add to the drift the status laws were set up to whip out the native population. If a native woman married a non native she lost status if a non native woman married a native man she got status. The thinking being that no father would alow his daughter to marry a native. Death being though of as a good option against a native male marrying a non native. It made sense at the time I guess.

It was also legal for indian agents to change wills and even names of people.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

If a native woman married a non native she lost status

Native women who married non natives were given their status back in the late 80s. Their kids were given status as well.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Actually, I've been giving this a rethink. This is really no different than a mayoral election.
It's also not like all of those living off reserve are living off reserve for official reasons either.
It's the job of the Chief of Attawapiskat to look after and represent the people living there.
It would be like me expecting to still be able to vote in Windsor's municipal elections because I lived there for almost 25 years.

[Freakinoldguy]

Curtman Curtman:

peck420 peck420:

Curtman Curtman:

Why is she responsible for the deplorable conditions? She's been chief since August 27, 2010. I never "championed the one leader" at all, I just haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that she doesn't mean well and want to improve her community like most every Canadian.

Your joking right? This is Theresa Spence we are talking about here. A woman that rolled in a luxury vehicle and went on tropical vacations while her people lived in squalor.

Yea, she was in it for the people all right. As long as they continued to let her manage the money with her husband.

That woman is a joke, and epitomizes everything that is wrong with politics.

Well the topic is that she was re-elected. I'm asking FOG, or you, or anyone who
cares about Attawapiskat. Who should have been elected?

The issue isn't her being re-elected it's the lack of participation by all band members in making that decision that's at issue.

Don't forget she won with a grand total of 214 out of 507 votes which is less than half of the eligible on Reserve Natives voting for her. So her mandate isn't exactly a slam dunk and the question now becomes what would the outcome have been if the off Reserve Natives had been allowed to vote or better yet what would the outcome have been had she only had one opponent facing her in the election?

But I guess we'll never know because, for whatever reason the pevious council of which she was a part decided that there wasn't enough interest to allow the Corbiere decision to be implemented despite it being a Supreme Court of Canada ruling.

Whatever the reasons there is a definite disconnect with democracy on that reserve. So, until the ones remaining on Reserve decide to remove her and the council from office they're going to have to live with her and her decisions. Just like Curtman has to live with Stephen Harper and his decisions.

But, what we as taxpayers don't have to do is keep throwing money at a system that excludes legitimate members just because of their house address.

[Freakinoldguy]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Actually, I've been giving this a rethink. This is really no different than a mayoral election.
It's also not like all of those living off reserve are living off reserve for official reasons either.
It's the job of the Chief of Attawapiskat to look after and represent the people living there.
It would be like me expecting to still be able to vote in Windsor's municipal elections because I lived there for almost 25 years.

But it's not a Mayoral election since it falls under the Indian Act which, was found to be in contravention of Section 15 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms by the Corbiere decision.

$1:

Members of the Batchewana Indian Band, on behalf of themselves and all other non-resident members of the band, sought a declaration that section 77(1) of the Indian Act violates section 15(1) of the Charter. The section of the Indian Act states that only band members be "ordinary resident" on the reserve in order to vote in the band elections even though only one third of the registered members live on the reserve.

The court unanimously agreed with the Court of Appeal's ruling that the Act violated section 15(1) of the Charter. However, the Court was split 5 to 4 on the proper application of the test.

The majority opinion was written by McLachlin and Bastarache JJ. with Lamer C.J., Major, and Cory JJ. concurring.

The Court found that an analogous ground upon which a section 15 claim can be based must be immutable, either actually immutable, such as race, or constructively immutable such as religion. Furthermore, once a ground is identified as analogous it remains analogous for all circumstances.
The minority opinion was given by L'Heureux-Dubé with Gonthier, Iacobucci and Binnie JJ. concurring

So I don't know how the Bands can still keep their off Reserve Members from voting but they do and the Government allows it despite the ruling.

[housewife]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

If a native woman married a non native she lost status

Native women who married non natives were given their status back in the late 80s. Their kids were given status as well.

Yes I know but the original set up was not the 1980s. The original set up was for men to marry natives women and fathers of non native daughters to protect or kill one or both to provent a marriage. In doing so they would assimulate the native population or kill them off it didn't really matter which out come as long as it worked. That is why they used words like "forever" in the treaties. Forever was only supose to be a couple of generations. It didn't work we live and learn.