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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:27 am
 


Tricks Tricks:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
IS it private property though? The pipeline seems to run through the unceded territory and potentially touches on the reservation proper.

The point in contention is considered federal land, that's part of why the USACE was consulted. It's about half a mile away from the reservation.


From what I understand, they have a long-standing land claim for that territory as it had been granted by treaty and then the feds nibbled away at it over the years with a series of unilateral expropriations and white settlement.

Moreover, the USACE is apparently obligated to perform a detailed archaeological and environmental impact assessment before allowing development or sale, which the protesters claim was rushed through and rubber-stamped to accommodate the oil interests.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:18 pm
 


Somebody somewhere always has a land claim. I bet if you search you'll find there's somebody somewhere who thinks he owns the block you live in.

New and old tribes are popping up to claim parts of the lower mainland around Vancouver all the time.

However the specific land the neo-marxists have gathered protesters from all over the world to trespass on and vandalize in pretense of protecting Indian land claims is as much private property as the districts most of us live in.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:50 pm
 


BeaverFever BeaverFever:
From what I understand, they have a long-standing land claim for that territory as it had been granted by treaty and then the feds nibbled away at it over the years with a series of unilateral expropriations and white settlement.
Two things. This land was apparently "taken" in the 1800s. They sued the government in the 1900s and were awarded what they would have been owed plus interest. They refused the money and it's apparently been gaining interest ever since. About 1 billion at this point. So they were paid for the land, whether they like it or not.
$1:
Moreover, the USACE is apparently obligated to perform a detailed archaeological and environmental impact assessment before allowing development or sale, which the protesters claim was rushed through and rubber-stamped to accommodate the oil interests.

The protesters are pretty much flat out wrong. The following from the court documents in which it was ruled against the Tribe.

$1:
Dakota Access nevertheless also prominently considered another factor in crafting its route: the potential presence of historic properties. Id. Using past cultural surveys, the company devised DAPL’s route to account for and avoid sites that had already been identified as potentially eligible for or listed on the National Register of Historic Places. Id., ¶¶ 2-4. With that path in hand, in July 2014, the company purchased rights to a 400-foot corridor along its preliminary route to conduct extensive new cultural surveys of its own. Id., ¶ 3. These surveys eventually covered the entire length of the pipeline in North and South Dakota, and much of 14 Iowa and Illinois. Id., ¶ 8. Professionally licensed archaeologists conducted Class II cultural surveys, which are “focused on visual reconnaissance of the ground surface in settings with high ground visibility.” Id. In some places, however, the same archaeologists carried out more intensive Class III cultural surveys, which involve a “comprehensive archaeological survey program” requiring both surface visual inspection and shovel-test probes of fixed grids to “inventory, delineate, and assess” historic sites. Id. These latter surveys required coordination with and approval by State Historic Preservation Officers.

Where this surveying revealed previously unidentified historic or cultural resources that
might be affected, the company mostly chose to reroute. Id., ¶¶ 4-6. In North Dakota, for
example, the cultural surveys found 149 potentially eligible sites, 91 of which had stone features. Id., ¶ 5. The pipeline workspace and route was modified to avoid all 91 of these stone features and all but 9 of the other potentially eligible sites. Id. By the time the company finally settled on a construction path, then, the pipeline route had been modified 140 times in North Dakota alone to avoid potential cultural resources. Id., ¶ 6. Plans had also been put in place to mitigate any effects on the other 9 sites through coordination with the North Dakota SHPO. Id., ¶ 13. All told, the company surveyed nearly twice as many miles in North Dakota as the 357 miles that would eventually be used for the pipeline. Id., ¶ 12.

https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/sh ... 6cv1534-39

In short, there was an extraordinary amount of archaeological work done just in that area. The tribe *repeatedly* dodged meetings and ignored requests for input over the course of about a year and a half. Other tribes did, but not the Sioux. The tried from September 2014 until January 2016 when they finally got the tribe to consult with them properly. If you read through that court document, you can plainly see the extent that the Corps and the Company went through to avoid culturally significant sites.

As for environmental impact, they're putting the pipeline basically right next to another one. Not to mention they have been releasing drafts of the EA since the beginning of this year. It's not like it happened over night.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:54 pm
 


$1:
Two things. This land was apparently "taken" in the 1800s. They sued the government in the 1900s and were awarded what they would have been owed plus interest. They refused the money and it's apparently been gaining interest ever since. About 1 billion at this point. So they were paid for the land, whether they like it or not.

Got a link?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:56 pm
 


$1:


Wish you had warned me that was a file download link and not a web address. Whatever it is, the file type wasn't recognized.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:07 pm
 


BeaverFever BeaverFever:
$1:
Two things. This land was apparently "taken" in the 1800s. They sued the government in the 1900s and were awarded what they would have been owed plus interest. They refused the money and it's apparently been gaining interest ever since. About 1 billion at this point. So they were paid for the land, whether they like it or not.

Got a link?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... of_Indians

Should explain it.

$1:
Wish you had warned me that was a file download link and not a web address. Whatever it is, the file type wasn't recognized.

It's a PDF of the court document detailing the extent the USACE went to consulting with the Sioux. Surprised it tried to download. You need better PDF software.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:20 pm
 


I should add though, from further research it does look like the USACE didn't do enough of an inspection into the environmental impact. However, they themselves called for a cease to the construction until it was sorted out. The Courts allowed the construction to continue.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:28 pm
 


:|


Last edited by Public_Domain on Mon Feb 24, 2025 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:09 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
One of the loser kids I know is at the protest and in typical fashion she can't articulate a coherent reason for why she's there. :|


I have a twenty year old in the family I just discovered is up to the same. He's down there now too.

But sheesh, I thought I had that kid educated.

He moved into hipster turf though. I think the Progressives got to him before I could heal the infection with injections of common sense.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:11 pm
 


:|


Last edited by Public_Domain on Mon Feb 24, 2025 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:21 pm
 


Actually he left about the time I started to notice BCF enriching Canadian culture, but we did used to go here:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/

a lot.

And Sun media was on the TV at the time so he should understand how professional protesters and the anti-local Western friendly oil, but pro-foreign conflict oil crowd works. I expect him to know enough to mock the Gore/Soros crowd.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:25 pm
 


Public_Domain Public_Domain:
I can imagine you sitting your family around your computer as you excitedly show them YouTube videos of bitter snobs and upperclass belittlers, and blocking all sites except blazingcatfur. :lol:

Anyway... Apparently Obama says they're going to reroute the pipeline.
http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/11/02/o ... -pipeline/

No idea wtf "let it play out for a few more weeks" entails.

So the company and the USACE does exactly what they're supposed to do in relation to the tribe, and they're going to get fucked over because of it.

I wonder if the company could sue the government for that?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:29 pm
 


:|


Last edited by Public_Domain on Mon Feb 24, 2025 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:30 pm
 


:|


Last edited by Public_Domain on Mon Feb 24, 2025 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:34 pm
 


$1:
Public_Domain wrote:

Anyway... Apparently Obama says they're going to reroute the pipeline.
http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/11/02/o ... -pipeline/


The 'Occupiers' in that link will be dealing with Trump in a matter of months though, and they'll be moving on to bigger fish when he OK's Keystone. They'll be looking for some new Indians to push in front of some different cameras in a different location. Standing Rock will be forgotten.

So who cares what the Democrat 'Occupier' arm think.


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