[Newsbot]

Title: Americans in Canada driven to divorce from their country
Category: Uncle Sam
Posted By: stokes
Date: 2011-11-09 09:00:50
Canadian

[DrCaleb]

People are strange that way. If you want them to pay to be in a 'club' that provides no net benefits to them, they will likely quit the 'club'.

[BartSimpson]

Good for them. If they're going to stay in Canada then be Canadian. Don't enjoy all that Canada has to offer and not commit to her.

[stokes]

No taxation without representation....isnt that one of the USA's founding principles? If they had a few members of congress for expats and they had full rights etc...maybe they would'nt want to leave



*Edited for spelling

[andyt]

I don't have a problem with what the US is doing - if you're a citizen you should pay taxes. Canada should do the same, if it doesn't already. I just hope they go after the money Americans have in tax havens as assiduously as they do after the ones living in Canada

[Robair]

stokes stokes:

No taxation without representation....isnt that one of the USA's founding principles? If they had a few members of congress for expats and they had full rights etc...maybe they would'nt want to leave



*Edited for spelling

They have representation.
They can vote from Canada if they want to.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

I just hope they go after the money Americans have in tax havens as assiduously as they do after the ones living in Canada

Tax havens are the business of the sovereign nations that wish to be tax havens. It's not the place of the Infernal Revenue Service to affect foreign policy by demanding access to the bank records of foreign nations.

You'd be frothing at the mouth if the IRS demanded that Canada hand over all of the records from Canadian banks so the IRS can see if any accounts belong to Americans. Yet that's what's already happened and Canada gives the IRS whatever it wants. I'm sure that's a comfort to you to know that the IRS knows the banking information for every Canadian.

[rickc]

This is not just about American expats living in Canada. Many Canadians have lived and worked in the States. They have children while residing in the States. Those children are considered American citizens for tax purposes. Even if they only spent a few days living in the States, they can find themselves on the IRS radar screen later in life. If the proper paperwork [giving up U.S. citizenship] has not been filed and you make good money, you are a target. Likewise Canadians born to Americans living in Canada can find themselves in the same boat. The IRS is a very tenacious opponent. They do not know the meaning of the word: quit. If they were running Imperial Japan, we would still be fighting WW2.

[MacDonaill]

I'm a dual-citizen by birth. I grew up in the US. I haven't filed a U.S. tax return since I left the U.S. I know that one may be required to, but I just don't agree with that. Now they want your banking information too? Jesus. I don't vote, I don't use my U.S. passport. I benefit from no U.S. consular services of any kind. I remain a U.S. citizen only because I'm not required to give it up and because my entire family lives in the States.

I don't see why one should have to renounce one's citizenship just to be free from being hassled by people who have no business in your life. One's citizenship is not a privilege; it's a birthright. I'm a U.S. citizen because my whole family is from Texas (not the other way around) and Texas is a federated state of the U.S. I also grew up in the U.S. Even if I were to renonce my citizenship, my American-ness would not simply vanish. It would just leave me in a situation where my nationality would be ambiguous.

A person living in Canada, whatever his nationality, already is subject to a higher taxation percentage in his respective bracket than he would be in the U.S. Of that, any tax agent anywhere can be sure. 99% of Americans in Canada probably don't even make enough to be tax liable after the foreign-earned income credit. Canada is anything but a tax haven.

This is what happens when the State becomes a spendthrift and needs cash. The shake-down begins.

[1Peg]

andyt andyt:

I don't have a problem with what the US is doing - if you're a citizen you should pay taxes. Canada should do the same, if it doesn't already. I just hope they go after the money Americans have in tax havens as assiduously as they do after the ones living in Canada

<insert head shake here>

[PublicAnimalNo9]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

I'm a dual-citizen by birth....
One's citizenship is not a privilege; it's a birthright.

Ummm k? So which citizenship do you consider your God-given birthright?

[MacDonaill]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

I'm a dual-citizen by birth....
One's citizenship is not a privilege; it's a birthright.

Ummm k? So which citizenship do you consider your God-given birthright?

I never said anything about G-d.

In any case, I received both citizenships at birth from my parents, so in that sense they are both very much a birthright. I grew up in one country and have chosen so far to live my adult life in the other. Legally, neither can be taken away without my consent.

I think, in the case of my US citizenship, that it would be absurd to not be a citizen of the country you grew up in and where basically your entire family lives.

I can't remember who said "Home is where, when you go there, they have to let you in." In my case, this applies to both Canada and the US, but when I think of the abstract concept of "home", I have to separate it. There is my familial home, in the United States, the home of my childhood, and there is my personal home which I have created for myself here in Canada, the home of my adulthood. When I'm in one, I invariably miss the other.

Thankfully, I don't have to choose.

[andyt]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

I'm a dual-citizen by birth. I grew up in the US. I haven't filed a U.S. tax return since I left the U.S. I know that one may be required to, but I just don't agree with that. Now they want your banking information too? Jesus. I don't vote, I don't use my U.S. passport. I benefit from no U.S. consular services of any kind. I remain a U.S. citizen only because I'm not required to give it up and because my entire family lives in the States.

I don't see why one should have to renounce one's citizenship just to be free from being hassled by people who have no business in your life. One's citizenship is not a privilege; it's a birthright. I'm a U.S. citizen because my whole family is from Texas (not the other way around) and Texas is a federated state of the U.S. I also grew up in the U.S. Even if I were to renonce my citizenship, my American-ness would not simply vanish. It would just leave me in a situation where my nationality would be ambiguous.

A person living in Canada, whatever his nationality, already is subject to a higher taxation percentage in his respective bracket than he would be in the U.S. Of that, any tax agent anywhere can be sure. 99% of Americans in Canada probably don't even make enough to be tax liable after the foreign-earned income credit. Canada is anything but a tax haven.

This is what happens when the State becomes a spendthrift and needs cash. The shake-down begins.

Good idea about the shakedown - time people paid their taxes. If you paid tax on Canadian earnings, as you say you likely owe nothing to the US. We have similar laws in Canada about declaring foreign holdings, we're just pussies in enforcing them.

But they need to change how people are penalized - right now you're penalized on the amount of money involved, even if you owe no taxes. Instead the penalty should be on the amount of tax you avoided if any.

If you're a citizen of a country, you should follow their laws. We've had proposals for a minimum tax in Canada to catch all the Canadians of convenience who don't actually live here. I believe that was proposed by the conservatives - ie not a left wing plot.

[MacDonaill]

andyt andyt:

If you're a citizen of a country, you should follow their laws.

A popular attitude, but one that I find to be un-American. Some laws are bullshit, and you should not follow those laws. Bad laws should not be followed.

In any case, I haven't broken any law. It's not against the law to not file if you don't owe taxes, but it is still recommended in order to benefit from a statute of limitations.

If ever the IRS chose to audit me, I have all the documentation I need to prove I owe nothing since I file every year in Canada.

[RUEZ]

$1:

Since the meeting, Mr. Wittgen has gone through a one-on-one interview at the consulate, where he signed an oath of renunciation, paid a $450 (U.S.) fee and handed over his U.S. passport. He’s also filed five years of U.S. back taxes. Now, he’s waiting for a confirmation certificate – the final step.

WTF, it's easier to stop being Cuban than American. Anyone that complains about Canada's fee's and taxes should take at look at the U.S.

$1:

Wealthy individuals, defined as those with annual income of about $150,000 or net worth of at least $2-million, also have to pay an exit tax.