[Robair]

uwish uwish:

point is where do you stop?

why only farmers and ranchers?

Is there another industry in Alberta that's in trouble?

[hurley_108]

Robair Robair:

uwish uwish:

point is where do you stop?

why only farmers and ranchers?

Is there another industry in Alberta that's in trouble?

The fast food / restaurant industry is having incredible trouble retaining staff, why not subsidize them so they can pay competetive wages?

[Robair]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Robair Robair:

uwish uwish:

point is where do you stop?

why only farmers and ranchers?

Is there another industry in Alberta that's in trouble?

The fast food / restaurant industry is having incredible trouble retaining staff, why not subsidize them so they can pay competetive wages?

That sounds rather permanent.

The beef bailout is a two-part one-time thing.

[Alta_redneck]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Are we going to subsidize the tourist industry now thats it's forecasting trouble? I doubt it. Yet the tourism industry in Alberta is larger than the agri-food industry. How much do we give them? $500 million? $600 million?

Either we subsidize everyone (janitors, plumbers, architects, farmers, mill workers, etc) or we subsidize no one. That's the only fair way.

Lets see now, I can sweep floors so I can live without a janitor, I can make shit run downhill (might not be to code) but I can live with that. Architects, nope I've never needed one of them before. Mill workers? They sure do make life easier, but yea I could probably manage with out them. TOURISM, gezzz don't even get me started on that, I know I can get along without the couple of 1000 weekend warriors that think there’s no rules once they leave their city limits. Are you still following me now? Ok that leaves us to food, I’m not allowed to raise livestock in my backyard, I don’t have enough land to grow my own wheat so I can bake my own bread, so nope I don’t think I can live without farmers. But then again we could all go back to collecting roots and berries but I doubt there’s to many people that would want to do that either. Now what about firemen?. I bet people like you think Firemen just sit around and play cards or sleep most of the time. So why use tax payers money to fund them, if their not fighting fires 24/7? I know our little volunteer fire department does a hell of a job. So why have full time Firemen in a City? As long as I have a full belly, I can build a new house if it burns down. But I can only starve to death once. Now I’m running late and can’t stay and play your stupid game with you, I got a box of steaks waiting for me and I’m off to a Q tonight. Thank Christ I don’t have to go out into the bush and bag me a moose.

[tritium]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

I guess we should just let the farmers go under...

Yes, that is exactly what you do...

Someone or something will always fill the void. Many farms in the United States are run by huge corporations, and are better run and turn a profit as they can buy in larger quantity what is required to run and maintain the farm.

[Zipperfish]

Robair Robair:

The beef bailout is a two-part one-time thing.

Agricultural subsidies are certainly not a one-time thing. IN Canada and the US agricultural subsidiss are big BIG business. And in Europe. Pretty much everywhere. Of course, once one country starts subsidizing, it impacts neighbours, who can no longer compete due to their competitors being subsidized, so they get subsidies too, and then someone else gets even more subsidies and the whole sorry game plays itself out.

Places like Africa get screwed (as usual) because even with their dirt cheap labout they can't compete wiht (say) subsidized cotton in the US. I read somewhere that agricultural subsidies in Canada were worth about $3.76 for every $1 earned by farmers. (here, but the website looks a little wingnut: http://www.urban-renaissance.org/urbanren/index.cfm?DSP=content&ContentID=2131)

In defence of the Alberta government, many governments see farming and food production as more than just a mere economic issue; they see food being produced close to home as a security issue too.

[Blue_Nose]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

In defence of the Alberta government, many governments see farming and food production as more than just a mere economic issue; they see food being produced close to home as a security issue too.

The more people start seeing things as more than a mere economic issue, the better.

[Robair]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Robair Robair:

The beef bailout is a two-part one-time thing.

Agricultural subsidies are certainly not a one-time thing.

No. But the beef bailout in the news article is. Right now the beef producers are in a bit of a pickle.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

IN Canada and the US agricultural subsidiss are big BIG business. And in Europe. Pretty much everywhere. Of course, once one country starts subsidizing, it impacts neighbours, who can no longer compete due to their competitors being subsidized, so they get subsidies too, and then someone else gets even more subsidies and the whole sorry game plays itself out.

Common knowledge. What are you suggesting? Canada quit and buy food from the USA?

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

In defence of the Alberta government, many governments see farming and food production as more than just a mere economic issue; they see food being produced close to home as a security issue too.

That's pretty much it. You've got to decide whether or not you want your country to produce it's own food.

There's money to be made, it just isn't being made by the farmers/cowboys at the bottom of the chain. If you've got ideas for fixing the system, I'm all ears.

[Schleihauf]

I wish they would have done the same thing in Ontario a couple of years ago.

[Alta_redneck]

lily lily:

$1:

Thank Christ I don’t have to go out into the bush and bag me a moose.

But you could if you had to.

Wasn't that the point of your post... at least with regards to everything else?

Yep, 1 month of the year I could do that, and that is 5 months away at the moment. Or are you all for poaching wildlife?

tritium tritium:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

I guess we should just let the farmers go under...

Yes, that is exactly what you do...

Someone or something will always fill the void. Many farms in the United States are run by huge corporations, and are better run and turn a profit as they can buy in larger quantity what is required to run and maintain the farm.

Corporation farms make a profit because their the one's that are setting the prices. They don't only own the farms. They own the slaughter houses. I'm not going to double check the facts, but I’d think it would be foolish to think that they don't own some pretty major food retail stores in the US. Those same Corps. already own all the big meat packing plants in Alberta. The Alberta Beef Producers are also mixed farmers, and if they lose any ability to raise beef, then their toast. There's no one stupid enough to get into farming now a days, for some reason they don't want to work 14-15 hours a day, and lose money. And I’m not calling farmers stupid, they do it for the pride and love of keeping the family farm going. And once the family farms are gone, and gobbled up by the big Corps. even those Sugar Frosted Flakes you love so much will be a luxury item. Something you only eat on Christmas day. And that day's coming, there's an Auction in Olds and their doing 4 or 5 farm sales a week in that area alone. If we don’t spend some of that Oil money now, helping out the farmers. Then we’ll be paying for it out of our own pocket in the future.

I’m an Oil whore already, I don’t want to become a Corporate Farm whore also.

[Yogi]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

bootlegga bootlegga:

No, my point was that most PCs (and other s right of centre) here constantly yammer on about the free market...until it affects them or someone they know.

I've rarely see conervatives on this thread--or on others in Canada opr the US--yammer on about the free market. Conservatives don't like the free market. Listen to Lou Dobbs on CNN go off about Free Trade. I find conservatives these days tend to support more money for government--to support enforcememnt for various moral bans (e.g. marijuanan, same-sex marriage) that they support or to go fight a war somewhere, or to prop up massive new state security apparatus.

Make no mistake--neo-conservatvies are the New Socialists.

I consider myself to be a conservative. I also SUPPORT a free market. If your business isn't turning a profit then it's time to change the way you do business or get out of that business!
The govt. has there grimey hands in every aspect of the agriculture/beef industry.They are just as much to blame for the current situation here as are the 'managers' of each farm. The bail-out should be a loan not a hand-out. After all, does anyone really think that the farmers would be WILLING to share their profits?

[Alta_redneck]

Yogi Yogi:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

bootlegga bootlegga:

No, my point was that most PCs (and other s right of centre) here constantly yammer on about the free market...until it affects them or someone they know.

I've rarely see conervatives on this thread--or on others in Canada opr the US--yammer on about the free market. Conservatives don't like the free market. Listen to Lou Dobbs on CNN go off about Free Trade. I find conservatives these days tend to support more money for government--to support enforcememnt for various moral bans (e.g. marijuanan, same-sex marriage) that they support or to go fight a war somewhere, or to prop up massive new state security apparatus.

Make no mistake--neo-conservatvies are the New Socialists.

I consider myself to be a conservative. I also SUPPORT a free market. If your business isn't turning a profit then it's time to change the way you do business or get out of that business!
The govt. has there grimey hands in every aspect of the agriculture/beef industry.They are just as much to blame for the current situation here as are the 'managers' of each farm. The bail-out should be a loan not a hand-out. After all, does anyone really think that the farmers would be WILLING to share their profits?

Their already sharing the profits Yogi, by you not having to pay $20 for a T-Bone steak.

[mtbr]

A poor rancher in southern Alberta is about as common as a June with no rain.

[Yogi]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

[
]



Their already sharing the profits Yogi, by you not having to pay $20 for a T-Bone steak.

As a matter of fact; I went shopping yesterday at 'no frills' in Vegreville. ONE T-bone steak-just big enough for one person,one meal- $18.92!

Be that as it may, I still think that 'supply & demand' should set the market rates for all commodities. I had a choice to purchase the T-bone steak or not. I chose not.Instead I purchased 'boneless blade' @ $6.13/kg.

[bootlegga]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Are we going to subsidize the tourist industry now thats it's forecasting trouble? I doubt it. Yet the tourism industry in Alberta is larger than the agri-food industry. How much do we give them? $500 million? $600 million?

Either we subsidize everyone (janitors, plumbers, architects, farmers, mill workers, etc) or we subsidize no one. That's the only fair way.

Lets see now, I can sweep floors so I can live without a janitor, I can make shit run downhill (might not be to code) but I can live with that. Architects, nope I've never needed one of them before. Mill workers? They sure do make life easier, but yea I could probably manage with out them. TOURISM, gezzz don't even get me started on that, I know I can get along without the couple of 1000 weekend warriors that think there’s no rules once they leave their city limits. Are you still following me now? Ok that leaves us to food, I’m not allowed to raise livestock in my backyard, I don’t have enough land to grow my own wheat so I can bake my own bread, so nope I don’t think I can live without farmers. But then again we could all go back to collecting roots and berries but I doubt there’s to many people that would want to do that either. Now what about firemen?. I bet people like you think Firemen just sit around and play cards or sleep most of the time. So why use tax payers money to fund them, if their not fighting fires 24/7? I know our little volunteer fire department does a hell of a job. So why have full time Firemen in a City? As long as I have a full belly, I can build a new house if it burns down. But I can only starve to death once. Now I’m running late and can’t stay and play your stupid game with you, I got a box of steaks waiting for me and I’m off to a Q tonight. Thank Christ I don’t have to go out into the bush and bag me a moose.

Yeah, that's a great fucking idea. Let everyone be their own plumber. Can you spell cholera? Typhus? That's what we'd wind up with...just like the middle ages. Sheesh...

Your other points are total BS as well, but your tourism one is pretty dumb too. Tourism generates almost twice as much income ($5.3 billion to $3.1 billion for agri-food) in Alberta annually, and employs more workers (check the Alberta government website for those stats). For you to just right off over 100,000 Albertan workers is rather sickening.

Using your rationale (that we need food to survive), than the most important industry in the province is water/sanitation. Without water, we die in about 3 days (People have been known to live for over 2 months without food). So, in your world, Epcor deserves massive subsidies right?

Do we need farmers? Of course we do. but we also need doctors, nurses, teachers, police, firefighters, engineers and dozens of other specialists to maintain our economy. My point is if we subsidize one group we have to subsidize them all. You are obviously too thick to understand that, so just let the adults talk, ok?

BTW, my best friend's father (growing up) was a fireman, and my current best friend is in the process of becoming one, so I think I might have an idea what firemen do.