[N_Fiddledog]

$1:

Modern-day jihadism of the kind represented by groups like al-Qa'ida and Isis emerged from the ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood, the world’s first Islamist group that dates back to the late-1920s in Egypt. The many Islamist and jihadist groups that emerged as offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood since the late-1920s have all been engaged in a struggle to overthrow Muslim-majority governments in order to establish a theocratic state, which they refer to as the caliphate, ruled by a single divinely appointed leader.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 73951.html

More specifically, I think the one at the link below is the best short article description I've seen of the creation and development of ISIS, and what they're up to now.

The War Nerd: Here’s everything you need to know about “too extreme for Al Qaeda” I.S.I.S.

It isn't exactly what you've been told by the mainstream, but it makes more sense.

[andyt]

@FOG - I still want to hear who these apologists for the jihadis are that you said wanted to hush up their aims.

And, I don't think Bin Laden hid anything. A Caliphate means society is organized as it was in the time after Muhammad's death. So medieval, as you call it. But ISIS is very adept at using modern media for example, so even they won't even try to truly return to that time. They're not going to give up their modern weapons or communications or modern oil extraction methods, among other things. So I don't know why this word medieval so sticks in your throat. It's just very harsh sharia law, and rule by a religious despot of some kind - nothing particularly new here. (not meant as a pun).

[andyt]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

More specifically, I think the one at the link below is the best short article description I've seen of the creation and development of ISIS, and what they're up to now.

The War Nerd: Here’s everything you need to know about “too extreme for Al Qaeda” I.S.I.S.

It isn't exactly what you've been told by the mainstream, but it makes more sense.

The mainstream has told me exactly that, except in less detail. Including the idea that ISIS is being used by Sunni revolutionaries who want out from Maliki and at some point will probably discard ISIS.

[N_Fiddledog]

andyt andyt:

The mainstream has told me exactly that, except in less detail. Including the idea that ISIS is being used by Sunni revolutionaries who want out from Maliki and at some point will probably discard ISIS.

No...no, I don't think it has. In fact it so blatantly does not I have to wonder if you really read the article.

The part you mention is so minor I don't even remember it being mentioned as mattering.

What struck me was how the chaos with 1,200 little armies running around waiting to exploit something makes it difficult to point and say "this is that, or that is this", but a general rule of thumb is the ones who survive best in that environment will flow into the areas where it becomes the easiest to exploit.

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

@FOG - I still want to hear who these apologists for the jihadis are that you said wanted to hush up their aims.

And, I don't think Bin Laden hid anything. A Caliphate means society is organized as it was in the time after Muhammad's death. So medieval, as you call it. But ISIS is very adept at using modern media for example, so even they won't even try to truly return to that time. They're not going to give up their modern weapons or communications or modern oil extraction methods, among other things. So I don't know why this word medieval so sticks in your throat. It's just very harsh sharia law, and rule by a religious despot of some kind - nothing particularly new here. (not meant as a pun).

Here's a few including some unlikely ones who you wouldn't think would apologize for radical Islam even by association.

http://www.meforum.org/916/cair-islamis ... ablishment

$1:

When President George W. Bush visited the Islamic Center of Washington several days after September 11, 2001, to signal that he would not tolerate a backlash against Muslims, he invited CAIR's executive director, Nihad Awad, to join him at the podium. Two months later, when Secretary of State Colin Powell hosted a Ramadan dinner, he, too, called upon CAIR as representative of Islam in America.[14] More broadly, when the State Department seeks out Muslims to welcome foreign dignitaries, journalists, and academics, it calls upon CAIR.[15] The organization has represented American Muslims before Congress. The National Aeronautics and Space Agency hosted CAIR's "Sensitivity and Diversity Workshop" in an effort to harmonize space research with Muslim sensibilities.[16]

Law-enforcement agencies in Florida, Maryland, Ohio, Michigan, New York, Arizona, California, Missouri, Texas, and Kentucky have attended CAIR's sensitivity-training sessions.[17] The organization boasts such tight relations with law enforcement that it claims to have even been invited to monitor police raids.[18] In July 2004, as agents from the FBI, Internal Revenue Service, and Homeland Security descended on the Institute of Islamic and Arabic Sciences in America, a Saudi-created school in Merrifield, Virginia, a local paper reported that the FBI had informed CAIR's legal director, Arsalan Iftikhar, that morning that the raid was going to take place.

BTW CAIR has been labelled a terrorist organization by some but, at the very least It's a terrorist sympathiser and has bee know to actively apologize for and downplay Radical Islam.

$1:

But there is another side to CAIR that has alarmed many people in positions to know. The Department of Homeland Security refuses to deal with it. Senator Charles Schumer (Democrat, New York) describes it as an organization "which we know has ties to terrorism."[3] Senator Dick Durbin (Democrat, Illinois) observes that CAIR is "unusual in its extreme rhetoric and its associations with groups that are suspect."[4] Steven Pomerantz, the FBI's former chief of counterterrorism, notes that "CAIR, its leaders, and its activities effectively give aid to international terrorist groups."[5] The family of John P. O'Neill, Sr., the former FBI counterterrorism chief who perished at the World Trade Center, named CAIR in a lawsuit as having "been part of the criminal conspiracy of radical Islamic terrorism"[6] responsible for the September 11 atrocities. Counterterrorism expert Steven Emerson calls it "a radical fundamentalist front group for Hamas."[7]

[andyt]

So some obscure forum has you all riled up about some conspiracy to hide the fact that many of the Sunni jihadis want to create a worldwide caliphate? I thought you were talking about some mainstream media or people of influence or something. There's nlut bars of all stripes, some fundamentalist Christians want to turn the US into a theocracy, some people who actually do have influence have said that non-Christians in the US should not get democracy.

As for CAIR, they sucked in Bush et al real good, but that's long over AFAIK. Not sure what the status of Canadian CAIR is, if they have govt ear or not.

Seems to me you were fussing about very little at all.

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

There's nlut bars of all stripes, some fundamentalist Christians want to turn the US into a theocracy .

As you're so fond of asking for "proof" I'm sure you have some evidence of Fundamentalist Christians stating they want to turn the US into a theocracy.

[andyt]

If you're so ignorant you've never heard of this, even tho it's in the news quite a bit, then here you go:

$1:

Dominion Theology or Dominionism is the idea that Christians should work toward either a nation governed by Christians or one governed by a conservative Christian understanding of biblical law. At least under this name, it exists primarily among Protestants in the United States. It is a form of theocracy and is related to theonomy, though it does not necessarily advocate Mosaic law as the basis of government. Prominent adherents of Dominion Theology are otherwise theologically diverse, including the Calvinist Christian Reconstructionism and the charismatic/Pentecostal Kingdom Now theology and New Apostolic Reformation.
Some elements within the mainstream Christian right have been influenced by Dominion Theology authors. Indeed, some writers have applied the term "Dominionism" more broadly to the mainstream Christian right, implicitly arguing that that movement is founded upon a theology that requires Christians to govern over non-Christians. Mainstream conservatives do not call themselves "Dominionists," and the usage has sparked considerable controversy.

wiki

$1:

Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry aren't just devout—both have deep ties to a fringe fundamentalist movement known as Dominionism, which says Christians should rule the world.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... -bond.html

$1:

Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, Roy Moore, while speaking at the Pastor for Life Luncheon, announced that the First Amendment only applies to Christians. During the luncheon, held by the group Pro-Life Mississippi, Moore said that “Buddha didn’t create us, Mohammed didn’t create us, it was the God of the Holy Scriptures [who created us],” using this specious line of “reasoning” as to why the First Amendment doesn’t apply to non-Christians.

http://aattp.org/judge-roy-moore-consti ... ans-video/

I mean, you really mean to say that no Christians want a theocracy, only the Muslims? What's wrong with you - don't get out much? Just stupid.

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

So some obscure forum has you all riled up about some conspiracy to hide the fact that many of the Sunni jihadis want to create a worldwide caliphate? I thought you were talking about some mainstream media or people of influence or something. There's nlut bars of all stripes, some fundamentalist Christians want to turn the US into a theocracy, some people who actually do have influence have said that non-Christians in the US should not get democracy.

As for CAIR, they sucked in Bush et al real good, but that's long over AFAIK. Not sure what the status of Canadian CAIR is, if they have govt ear or not.

Seems to me you were fussing about very little at all.

It's not the apologists I'm so concerned about its the couching of the true intentions by Al Qaeda and ISIS that bother me. You may have figured it out but most of the middle east doesn't have access to the information we do or, if they do it's tainted with massive amounts of anti western rhetoric. So, these people are consequently getting taken for a ride by these radical groups who, keep claiming they're going to bring back the Golden Age of Islam all the while forgetting to mention that this largess includes radical Sharia law combined with 14th Century morals and punishments all the while converting the rest of the World to their version of Islam.

[andyt]

They're being taken for a ride all right, but it's not by hiding the intentions of the jihadis. Many Muslims can't handle the truth of why the Christian world passed them by (in large part by pushing christianity to the side so it wasn't the center of people's lives anymore) because they clung to the old ways, so they think going backwards will restore former glory. Just like Americans are being taken for a ride with talk of equality of opportunity by their ruling class.

So no, I don't think this declaration by ISIS, or I should say IS now, as they're just calling themselves Islamic state, came as a surprise to anybody

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

If you're so ignorant you've never heard of this, even tho it's in the news quite a bit, then here you go:

$1:

Dominion Theology or Dominionism is the idea that Christians should work toward either a nation governed by Christians or one governed by a conservative Christian understanding of biblical law. At least under this name, it exists primarily among Protestants in the United States. It is a form of theocracy and is related to theonomy, though it does not necessarily advocate Mosaic law as the basis of government. Prominent adherents of Dominion Theology are otherwise theologically diverse, including the Calvinist Christian Reconstructionism and the charismatic/Pentecostal Kingdom Now theology and New Apostolic Reformation.
Some elements within the mainstream Christian right have been influenced by Dominion Theology authors. Indeed, some writers have applied the term "Dominionism" more broadly to the mainstream Christian right, implicitly arguing that that movement is founded upon a theology that requires Christians to govern over non-Christians. Mainstream conservatives do not call themselves "Dominionists," and the usage has sparked considerable controversy.

wiki

$1:

Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry aren't just devout—both have deep ties to a fringe fundamentalist movement known as Dominionism, which says Christians should rule the world.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... -bond.html

$1:

Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, Roy Moore, while speaking at the Pastor for Life Luncheon, announced that the First Amendment only applies to Christians. During the luncheon, held by the group Pro-Life Mississippi, Moore said that “Buddha didn’t create us, Mohammed didn’t create us, it was the God of the Holy Scriptures [who created us],” using this specious line of “reasoning” as to why the First Amendment doesn’t apply to non-Christians.

http://aattp.org/judge-roy-moore-consti ... ans-video/

I mean, you really mean to say that no Christians want a theocracy, only the Muslims? What's wrong with you - don't get out much? Just stupid.

Good to see you couldn't even answer the question without resorting to insults. Good to know.

[andyt]

It was a stupid question, that you obviously didn't mean seriously. You just can't be that out of it. Just hoping I wouldn't be able to come up with anything I guess. Actually got me reading a bit more on it, seems to be a pretty well entrenched movement within the Tea Party. Stands to reason. If you're an evangelical christian and believe that anybody that's not born again will spend eternity in hell, it kinda makes sense to think that the "good" people should rule the world.

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

It was a stupid question, that you obviously didn't mean seriously. You just can't be that out of it. Just hoping I wouldn't be able to come up with anything I guess. Actually got me reading a bit more on it, seems to be a pretty well entrenched movement within the Tea Party. Stands to reason. If you're an evangelical christian and believe that anybody that's not born again will spend eternity in hell, it kinda makes sense to think that the "good" people should rule the world.

No, it was a question. And you couldn't resist being an ass in your response. I don't surf the net looking for any little anti-Christian tidbit to jerk off to, unlike yourself.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

andyt andyt:

It was a stupid question, that you obviously didn't mean seriously. You just can't be that out of it. Just hoping I wouldn't be able to come up with anything I guess. Actually got me reading a bit more on it, seems to be a pretty well entrenched movement within the Tea Party. Stands to reason. If you're an evangelical christian and believe that anybody that's not born again will spend eternity in hell, it kinda makes sense to think that the "good" people should rule the world.

No, it was a question. And you couldn't resist being an ass in your response. I don't surf the net looking for any little anti-Christian tidbit to jerk off to, unlike yourself.

In all fairness though, it doesn't require any surfing for tidbits. The US news is full of examples popping up on a regular basis. Things like laws being drafted in some states to allow Christians to discriminate against anyone, particularly gay people. The on-going fight to get Creationism in the schools. The more frequent lamentations about how America needs to get back closer to God. Heck, it's even spilled over into here.
From what I've seen, I have zero doubt that the fundie Christians in the US would happily turn it into a theocracy given half a chance.

[desertdude]

I'm so sick of these ISIS fuckers and everybody talking about these bunch of crappy thugs. Like all idiots there own infighting will be the end of them. I see they have the Indian Subcontinent also covered in their pie in the sky map. A good nuke or two from Pakistan will shut these buggers up pretty fast even if they try, plus our army is getting a good workout wiping off these scumbags as we speak in N. Waziristan in Operation Zarb-E-Azb as we speak. After weeks of aerial bombardment the ground troops have moved in to finish off what is left of these buggers.