[BartSimpson]

DanSC DanSC:

So, who y'all got in Iran-Iraq War II?

I'm betting on the Kurds to establish a new somewhat-secular state while the Sunnis and Shiites are busy killing each other.

[N_Fiddledog]

$1:

A map purportedly showing the areas ISIS plans to have under its control within five years has been widely shared online. As well as the Middle East, North Africa and large areas of Asia, it also reveals ISIS' ambition to extend into Europe. Spain, which was Muslim-ruled until the late 15th Century, would form part of the caliphate, as would the Balkan states and eastern Europe, up to and including Austria

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... iance.html

[DanSC]

$1:

within five years

[ShepherdsDog]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

$1:

A map purportedly showing the areas ISIS plans to have under its control within five years has been widely shared online. As well as the Middle East, North Africa and large areas of Asia, it also reveals ISIS' ambition to extend into Europe. Spain, which was Muslim-ruled until the late 15th Century, would form part of the caliphate, as would the Balkan states and eastern Europe, up to and including Austria

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... iance.html

If this muzzie wet dream ever came to fruition, you can count on the Europeans........rolling over and giving up, with nary a whimper

[andyt]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

andyt andyt:

What? Man, the shit you come up with. Every time somebody mentioned ISIS, it's mentioned that their mission statement is to create said caliphate. Who exactly are these pc folks that you're fuming about today? Do you just make up shit to fume about when there's no real shit to fume about?

If your reading and comprehension skills were more attuned to the real world rather than some fantasy utopia where everyone lives with their rainbows and unicorns you might have noticed the "medieval-style Caliphate" part but, I guess that would make the people who have been saying that Islamic Radicals want to return the world to the 14th Century right which, definitely wouldn't fit your apologist agenda.

I didn't know modern, progressive Caliphates were an option. Pretty well thought the medieval-style was assumed, never heard anybody say different. Never heard anybody saying Jihadis are progressive people either. You just make shit up in your head so you can fume about it. Or, how about you post a link where anybody says that the jihadis just want to create a modern state or where anybody is apologizing for them. I'd be especially interested in you providing a link where I apologize for jihadis. You do understand not all Muslims are jihadis, don't you? Or do you?

[Jonny_C]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

That's quite the wet dream for a "caliphate" that has this kind of a victory parade...



U.S. Army boots and a pair of (gulp) orange sneakers.

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

andyt andyt:

What? Man, the shit you come up with. Every time somebody mentioned ISIS, it's mentioned that their mission statement is to create said caliphate. Who exactly are these pc folks that you're fuming about today? Do you just make up shit to fume about when there's no real shit to fume about?

If your reading and comprehension skills were more attuned to the real world rather than some fantasy utopia where everyone lives with their rainbows and unicorns you might have noticed the "medieval-style Caliphate" part but, I guess that would make the people who have been saying that Islamic Radicals want to return the world to the 14th Century right which, definitely wouldn't fit your apologist agenda.

I didn't know modern, progressive Caliphates were an option. Pretty well thought the medieval-style was assumed, never heard anybody say different. Never heard anybody saying Jihadis are progressive people either. You just make shit up in your head so you can fume about it. Or, how about you post a link where anybody says that the jihadis just want to create a modern state or where anybody is apologizing for them. I'd be especially interested in you providing a link where I apologize for jihadis. You do understand not all Muslims are jihadis, don't you? Or do you?

For the record I and alot of people have been saying that the Radicals want to send their religion and all it's adherents back to the middle ages but, the apologists keep avoiding that topic which is why I posted the part where these assholes have actually admitted to what most of us on this forum already knew and had stated.

So if that's making shit up in my head then I'll defer to your Sylvia Brown abilities and wait for the link where you admit that the radicals want to turn the middle east into a 1400 version of paradise and yes I understand that all Muslims aren't Jihadi's so could you show me where I claimed otherwise?

[Thanos]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DanSC DanSC:

So, who y'all got in Iran-Iraq War II?

I'm betting on the Kurds to establish a new somewhat-secular state while the Sunnis and Shiites are busy killing each other.

How about we arm the shit out of the Mongols, give them a couple of armoured corps and about three thousand helicopter gunships, and just let encourage them do what comes naturally to them?

[ShepherdsDog]

Don't know about that. Last time they steam rolled over the Muslim armies and ended up visiting eastern Europe for a few generations. The Ukrainians would really be apprehensive.

[andyt]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

For the record I and alot of people have been saying that the Radicals want to send their religion and all it's adherents back to the middle ages but, the apologists keep avoiding that topic which is why I posted the part where these assholes have actually admitted to what most of us on this forum already knew and had stated.

So if that's making shit up in my head then I'll defer to your Sylvia Brown abilities and wait for the link where you admit that the radicals want to turn the middle east into a 1400 version of paradise and yes I understand that all Muslims aren't Jihadi's so could you show me where I claimed otherwise?

How about you back this up with some links of people apologizing for the jihadis? Not other jihadi Muslims, but non-Muslims.

You just have to scroll up where i say that everybody knows that the aims of Al Qaeda and especially ISIS (the name implies as much) are to establish this caliphate. There's nothing for me to admit, but nice have you stopped beating your wife twist.

For fucks sake. join the real world. Ever since at least 9/11, if not the USS Cole, it's been explained in the media that this caliphate is the aim of Al Qaeda. As usual you make a big fuss about something that just isn't happening.

I think it's incumbent on you to back up your claim that people want to deny what Al Qaeda's aims are. Who are these people exactly, where do they exist except in your feverish little brain? You go on and on about a point that is just common knowledge, thinking you've proved something. Next you'll claim that people are denying that water is wet because they don't mention it every second sentence.

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

[quote="Freakinoldguy"


For the record I and alot of people have been saying that the Radicals want to send their religion and all it's adherents back to the middle ages but, the apologists keep avoiding that topic which is why I posted the part where these assholes have actually admitted to what most of us on this forum already knew and had stated.

So if that's making shit up in my head then I'll defer to your Sylvia Brown abilities and wait for the link where you admit that the radicals want to turn the middle east into a 1400 version of paradise and yes I understand that all Muslims aren't Jihadi's so could you show me where I claimed otherwise?

$1:

How about you back this up with some links of people apologizing for the jihadis? Not other jihadi Muslims, but non-Muslims.

You just have to scroll up where i say that everybody knows that the aims of Al Qaeda and especially ISIS (the name implies as much) are to establish this caliphate. There's nothing for me to admit, but nice have you stopped beating your wife twist.

For fucks sake. join the real world. Ever since at least 9/11, if not the USS Cole, it's been explained in the media that this caliphate is the aim of Al Qaeda. As usual you make a big fuss about something that just isn't happening.

I think it's incumbent on you to back up your claim that people want to deny what Al Qaeda's aims are. Who are these people exactly, where do they exist except in your feverish little brain? You go on and on about a point that is just common knowledge, thinking you've proved something. Next you'll claim that people are denying that water is wet because they don't mention it every second sentence.

What's up the beating the wife twist or is that just something you just made up to help your case?

As for Al Qaeda's aims. Well here ya go. It says they want to return to a golden age when Islamic Civilization challenged Europe and Asia for supremacy. It's interesting to note that considering that the challenge part they say nothing about moving the laws, lifestyle, customs and traditions back to the 14th century like ISIS wants. Big difference between becoming powerful like your ancestors and living without any modern conveniences like you claim.

$1:

What the jihadists wanted was a return to a golden age when Islamic civilization challenged Europe and Asia for supremacy. Control of a sanctuary in Iraq was just the first step in a deliberate plan to control the wider Middle East, a strategy spelled out in a 2005 letter from Ayman al-Zawahiri, the number two man in al-Qaeda, to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq. From their sanctuary in Iraq, jihadists could destabilize the neighboring states of Syria, Jordan, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia. The collapse of these regimes would enable jihadists to control tens of millions of Muslims and the oil supplies on which Europe, Japan, and China relied to fuel their economies. A jihadist victory in Egypt would complete the encirclement of Israel, which would then be destroyed. Meanwhile, the United States, the “far enemy,” would be destabilized by a campaign of terrorism and economic sabotage. The end result would be the creation of a new Islamic caliphate that would rival the power of the West and restore the glory of Islam.

Al-Qaeda’s vision was appealing to a certain segment of the Islamic world, but it was fundamentally ahistorical. The Islamic golden age was a time when secularism, not sectarianism, prevailed. Islamic scholars gave the world a number of important advances in mathematics, astronomy, medicine, literature, and other disciplines. They did so through research and learning in a variety of intellectual pursuits, exactly the opposite educational program of jihadist madrassas, which focus primarily on Islamic studies. In short, jihadists want to restore the glory of the Islamic golden age without understanding what made it golden in the first place.

http://www.hoover.org/research/al-qaedas-aims

It's interesting to note though that as soon as you start losing an argument you revert to your standard tactic of insulting your adversary with the use of terms like "feverish little brain"

Well it's becoming quite apparent why your lack of acumen in world, local and municipal politics is legendary so, I'll just file the latest insult with the rest and carry on since you can't refute the fact that one of these Radical morons finally came out and claimed they wanted to revert back to the 14th century rather than bring the glory of that time back to the Middle East, something they hadn't done verbally in the past despite your unfounded claims.

[andyt]

Your point was that the apologists, whoever they are, were "not talking about" the fact that Al Qaeda and ISIS wanted to establish a caliphate. So who are these apologist you were raving about?

If none of the jihadis has claimed they want to establish a caliphate, how is it that this is common knowledge, to everybody but yourself, it seems? This has been their acknowledged aim from the beginning. The only thing different here is that they finally control a good chunk of territory, sort of, because of the collaboration of the Sunnis there who decided ISIS was a better choice than the Baghdad govt. Doesn't mean this co-operation will continue once the Sunnis feel they've won their own state or at least more independence.

So again, who are the apologists you were going on about?

Why would I refute that ISIS says they have established their caliphate? I know it as well as you. But that this was their aim doesn't come as a surprise to me, nor do I rave on about apologists who were apparently trying to cover up that this was these jihadis' aim. That is my contention with what you wrote, that's what I say is pure raving, and I would like to see you back up this claim of cover up by these apologists, and state clearly who these supposed apologists are. That is the part I think is sheer lunacy in your post. Try to stay focused, not twist the argument into something it never was.

They've never claimed they had established their caliphate because they never held the territory to do so, but everybody except FOG knows this was always their aim. And they are a very small group, it's very unlikely they will be able to maintain this caliphate. It's already been reported that they have not declared their draconian sharia law in many places because they know they would alienate the population and their hold is much too tenuous. As I say, read some newspapers to get a deeper understanding of what's going on here, not just the babble on TV.

http://time.com/2899488/the-end-of-iraq/ oops, looks like you have to pay to read the article. I happened to buy the mag. Anyway, what is says is ISIS is a the spearhead of a Sunni coalition of anyone from disgruntled Sunni leaders to Saddam loyalists. This is a rebellion. "Fear of alienating moderate Sunnis may explain Why ISIS hasn't enacted severe Shari'a law in most newly captured Iraqi population centers." The article ends with making the point that this conflict goes back to the death of Mohammed - ie the Shia/Sunni conflict, and that recent events, starting with the second invasion of Iran, have allowed this genie to come out of the bottle, and there will be hell to pay trying to put it back in.

But, the Vancouver Sun and Globe and Mail have written analysis of this extensively too.

[andyt]

Surely after 911 you read the analysis of Al Qaeda? That Bin Laden's ultimate aim was to establish a caliphate. Mecca would of course be the ultimate prize. The reason he attacked the US is because they prop up the house of Saud, which Bin Laden wants to overthrow. Meantime tho, the house of Saud and other rich Saudis fund various jihadi groups with the understanding that they will keep their fight out of SA. It's a complete daisy chain, where Western money for oil funds the Saudi Arabians who fund worldwide madrasas (including the US) that preach this very fundamentalist Islam and who fund the jihadis as long as they don't attack Saudi Arabia which however is the jihadis' ultimate goal. Like how they used to say drugs fund terrorism, well that's nothing compared to what the oil we buy funds. Surely you've heard all this?

ISIS is just the latest iteration of this - incredibly rich with oil wealth, looted money and the funding from SA and other oil states. The chickens are coming home to roost, because you can bet they won't stop til they have Mecca. Meanwhile we'll have to ally with Iran against them, which will give Israel conniptions. And young Canadian Muslims are joining this idiocy, and will likely come back well trained and hardened to spread the joy in Canada. As we're being warned about right now. But how do you stop these guys without gutting our democratic state even further than we've already done? Good chance, as in every war, they will push us into being almost as bad as they are. I hope we can find our way thru this and still be the Canada we know.

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

Surely after 911 you read the analysis of Al Qaeda? That Bin Laden's ultimate aim was to establish a caliphate. Mecca would of course be the ultimate prize. The reason he attacked the US is because they prop up the house of Saud, which Bin Laden wants to overthrow. Meantime tho, the house of Saud and other rich Saudis fund various jihadi groups with the understanding that they will keep their fight out of SA. It's a complete daisy chain, where Western money for oil funds the Saudi Arabians who fund worldwide madrasas (including the US) that preach this very fundamentalist Islam and who fund the jihadis as long as they don't attack Saudi Arabia which however is the jihadis' ultimate goal. Like how they used to say drugs fund terrorism, well that's nothing compared to what the oil we buy funds. Surely you've heard all this?

ISIS is just the latest iteration of this - incredibly rich with oil wealth, looted money and the funding from SA and other oil states. The chickens are coming home to roost, because you can bet they won't stop til they have Mecca. Meanwhile we'll have to ally with Iran against them, which will give Israel conniptions. And young Canadian Muslims are joining this idiocy, and will likely come back well trained and hardened to spread the joy in Canada. As we're being warned about right now. But how do you stop these guys without gutting our democratic state even further than we've already done? Good chance, as in every war, they will push us into being almost as bad as they are. I hope we can find our way thru this and still be the Canada we know.

You're right but, my guess is that Bin Laden didn't want to take the entire Muslim World kicking and screaming back to the 14th century literally or, if he did he was smart enough not to voice it because that wouldn't have endeared him to his main benefactors, the Saudi Princes, who, like most of the Middle East would rather talk the talk, than walk the walk while keeping all those luxuries and technical achievements that allow them to attack the modern world.

But now ISIS has come right out and admitted that it's literal when they say they're going to take the Muslim World back to the 14th Century, which may be one of the reasons for the split with mainstream Al Qaeda. As for stopping groups like ISIS, it'll be up to the people of the Middle East to do it not us and my guess is that when they get a taste of the Golden Age these clowns want to create it won't take them long to start thinking about a change of leadership. All we have to do is hope it happens sooner than later.

[llama66]

Should the Caliphate ever reach to Mecca the ISIS have gone on record stating they will destroy the Kaaba and 'kill those who worship stones'.

I see the stage being set for a exceptionally bloody world war 3.

In regards to the map the ISIS think they can accomplish in 5 years... Is Russia and India ok with these loons carving up their nations? I suspect the world is about to come down hard on these guys.