[dougC]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

You should know that the much maligned ‘right wing’ of CKA has a very high proportion of ex-military members, some still serving.
You should make a note of that before you give us any more ill-informed sound bites from the Liberal la-la land of dishonour in all things defence orientated.

I never said I don't respect military personel, if I did that would apply to half my relatives, most of them in the states. Two are serving in Iraq as we speak, putting their lives on the line for a President that avoided the draft when it was time for him to serve. Or maybe that's something I can't say either.

Maybe you need to send me a list of things I can and can't say, because you seem to have appointed yourself the thought police here.

edit- I had the great fortune of getting to know a severly disabled Vietnem vet, my uncle. Just getting up and functioning everyday was a triumph. I also saw how little he was appreciated by those around him for what he gave up. that included the wonderful military who sent him off to war without his permission. Something the two men who now sit in power in America didn't have the courage to do. and just when he was finally starting to put his life back together and rid himself of the demons he picked up in a war on the other side of the world, he died. Broke my heart.

I know the cost of war and I know there's a better way than just the same old crap.

so I'd really appreciate it if you'd keep your opinions to yourself in the future you jingoistic little ****.

[hwacker]

dougC dougC:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

You should know that the much maligned ‘right wing’ of CKA has a very high proportion of ex-military members, some still serving.
You should make a note of that before you give us any more ill-informed sound bites from the Liberal la-la land of dishonour in all things defence orientated.

I never said I don't respect military personel, if I did that would apply to half my relatives, most of them in the states. Two are serving in Iraq as we speak, putting their lives on the line for a President that avoided the draft when it was time for him to serve. Or maybe that's something I can't say either.

Maybe you need to send me a list of things I can and can't say, because you seem to have appointed yourself the thought police here.

Are you talking about clinton ? sure sounds like it.

[dougC]

hwacker hwacker:

dougC dougC:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

You should know that the much maligned ‘right wing’ of CKA has a very high proportion of ex-military members, some still serving.
You should make a note of that before you give us any more ill-informed sound bites from the Liberal la-la land of dishonour in all things defence orientated.

I never said I don't respect military personel, if I did that would apply to half my relatives, most of them in the states. Two are serving in Iraq as we speak, putting their lives on the line for a President that avoided the draft when it was time for him to serve. Or maybe that's something I can't say either.

Maybe you need to send me a list of things I can and can't say, because you seem to have appointed yourself the thought police here.

Are you talking about clinton ? sure sounds like it.

Nope, Bush and Cheney. Poppy Bush got baby Bush a nice safe billet in the Texas Guard and Dick Cheney was able to finesse a total of five draft deferments. see my post above to see why this bothers me.

[EyeBrock]

dougC dougC:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

You should know that the much maligned ‘right wing’ of CKA has a very high proportion of ex-military members, some still serving.
You should make a note of that before you give us any more ill-informed sound bites from the Liberal la-la land of dishonour in all things defence orientated.

I never said I don't respect military personel, if I did that would apply to half my relatives, most of them in the states. Two are serving in Iraq as we speak, putting their lives on the line for a President that avoided the draft when it was time for him to serve. Or maybe that's something I can't say either.

Maybe you need to send me a list of things I can and can't say, because you seem to have appointed yourself the thought police here.

edit- I had the great fortune of getting to know a severly disabled Vietnem vet, my uncle. Just getting up and functioning everyday was a triumph. I also saw how little he was appreciated by those around him for what he gave up. that included the wonderful military who sent him off to war without his permission. Something the two men who now sit in power in America didn't have the courage to do. and just when he was finally starting to put his life back together and rid himself of the demons he picked up in a war on the other side of the world, he died. Broke my heart.

I know the cost of war and I know there's a better way than just the same old crap.

so I'd really appreciate it if you'd keep your opinions to yourself in the future you jingoistic little ****.

Opinions are what this forum is about. None of us keep them to ourselves.

You may have some personal knowledge of the US military, but you obviously know nothing about the Canadian Forces, otherwise you wouldn't have made that ill-informed post.

You will get taken to task when you make statements that are blatantly wrong.

Jingoism is something spared for civilians.
You won't find many jingoistic military people, we know too well the cost of war. We are realistic, not jingoistic and I will keep on rebutting those who know nothing of what they speak, like you.

[dougC]

Fuck you you gunsucker. For all your pride in the money spent on weaponry things still haven't changed. I just heard on the radio how the the Sec Def just fired the Sec Army for quote " deplorable conidtions at Walter Reed Hospital". They're still not taking care of their wounded soldiers, it's the same old crap. Start a fucked up war, ask the poor to go fight it then forget them when their wounded and no longer of use. There's a reason why I don't like military spending, because the people who are on the shity end of the stick are never the ones who benefit. It's always perverted losers like you that volunteer someone else to go fight.

In case you have figured it out yet I don't like you in the slightest.

[EyeBrock]

dougC dougC:

Fuck you you gunsucker. For all your pride in the money spent on weaponry things still haven't changed. I just heard on the radio how the the Sec Def just fired the Sec Army for quote " deplorable conidtions at Walter Reed Hospital". They're still not taking care of their wounded soldiers, it's the same old crap. Start a fucked up war, ask the poor to go fight it then forget them when their wounded and no longer of use. There's a reason why I don't like military spending, because the people who are on the shity end of the stick are never the ones who benefit. It's always perverted losers like you that volunteer someone else to go fight.

In case you have figured it out yet I don't like you in the slightest.

What has that got to do with the Canadian Forces?

Your vast vocabulary is impressive, matched only by your knowledge of the Canadian Forces.
I take it you have never served your country…didn’t think so. You should leave commenting on these matters to those who actually know of what they speak. Otherwise you will just continue to look very silly.

Nice to see somebody new with such a good attitude.

[2Cdo]

dougC dougC:

Fuck you you gunsucker. For all your pride in the money spent on weaponry things still haven't changed. I just heard on the radio how the the Sec Def just fired the Sec Army for quote " deplorable conidtions at Walter Reed Hospital". They're still not taking care of their wounded soldiers, it's the same old crap. Start a fucked up war, ask the poor to go fight it then forget them when their wounded and no longer of use. There's a reason why I don't like military spending, because the people who are on the shity end of the stick are never the ones who benefit. It's always perverted losers like you that volunteer someone else to go fight.

In case you have figured it out yet I don't like you in the slightest.

Another Liberal supporter melt-down! I personally have come to the conclusion that you are full of shit as well as being ignorant and uninformed. As soon as someone called you on the Liberal attitude towards the CF you promptly jumped in with "I never said I don't respect military personel" and then suddenly had family that served including a horribly scarred uncle from Viet Nam!

Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit.

No disrespect is meant to actual, real ex Viet Nam vets, just the imaginary ones!

[PluggyRug]

dougC dougC:

Fuck you you gunsucker. For all your pride in the money spent on weaponry things still haven't changed. I just heard on the radio how the the Sec Def just fired the Sec Army for quote " deplorable conidtions at Walter Reed Hospital". They're still not taking care of their wounded soldiers, it's the same old crap. Start a fucked up war, ask the poor to go fight it then forget them when their wounded and no longer of use. There's a reason why I don't like military spending, because the people who are on the shity end of the stick are never the ones who benefit. It's always perverted losers like you that volunteer someone else to go fight.

In case you have figured it out yet I don't like you in the slightest.

Methinks the Conservative lead has you all upset.

[Bodah]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

dougC dougC:

Fuck you you gunsucker. For all your pride in the money spent on weaponry things still haven't changed. I just heard on the radio how the the Sec Def just fired the Sec Army for quote " deplorable conidtions at Walter Reed Hospital". They're still not taking care of their wounded soldiers, it's the same old crap. Start a fucked up war, ask the poor to go fight it then forget them when their wounded and no longer of use. There's a reason why I don't like military spending, because the people who are on the shity end of the stick are never the ones who benefit. It's always perverted losers like you that volunteer someone else to go fight.

In case you have figured it out yet I don't like you in the slightest.

What has that got to do with the Canadian Forces?

This is an example of how some Liberal Canadians identify themselves as Canadians presented to us for our reading pleasure. You know America is evil this, American is evil that, were not like them, dont want to be like them.

Harper is them apparently because, now heres the crazy left wing leap here. When our neighbors were attacked on 911 were 24 Canadians were killed and when the Liberals sent us there to kill bad guys, yes to kill them, our men and women went. Since some liberals have short memories and has no idea why were are in Afghanistan apparently or just cant stomach the loses they see on the evening news and it depresses them. Forget the fact that the family of the soldiers that have died there the majority of them still overwhelmingly still support the mission, its not about these people or the soldiers. Its about what offends them. The news, the images, the body count, the fact that we have soldiers that are trained to kill and do it efficiently. The fact the image of our armed forces has changed from blue helmet social workers handing out candy and teddy bears with orders not to fire your weapons unlessed fired on. No longer exists were killing people now, because they want to kill us and have I.E. 911, civilians at that...... how offensive to fight back.

Tough, times have changed and not by our doing so suck it up.

They want Harper to cut and run, we wont. Because it would mean that the Canadian soldiers that have died there for us would all be for nothing if we dont finish the job.

[grainfedprairieboy]

Bodah Bodah:

They want Harper to cut and run, we wont. Because it would mean that the Canadian soldiers that have died there for us would all be for nothing if we dont finish the job.

You've got that right! Canadians have never cut and run in our history and I'll be damned if Canada is that Liberal now that we can't finish the job and have to disgrace the fallen. If that is so then I promise you for many years to come Canadian soldiers will be targeted first because the enemy will know we are pussies and will either cut and run or demand missions where we can hide or not be in a position to fight.

Could even one person explain to me how they can be both a Liberal supporter and a Canadian patriot at the same time when dishonourable nonsense like this is what defines the bloody party?

[stratos]

silly question but when is your election?

[dougC]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

dougC dougC:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

dougC dougC:

Any Liberal leader was going to get hit hard after the leadership convention, the fact Harper came out swinging the way he has shows the threat he sees Dion to be.

Canadian unity is a balancing act that wouldn't survive the removal of Quebec. And there's only one party that has shown they have the will and ability to manage it. The conservatives under Mulroney were far to concerned with influences from south of the border and Harper is no different. If anything he's more focused on making Canada more like the states. We've already been down that road and know where it leads. Sovereignty crisis.

I think the CPC saw Dion as a minor threat, easily toppled by advertisements. They worked to a charm. Dion's an easy target.

What's with the anti-American attitude from you Liberals? Canada MUST work with the United States. PEROID. Because Harper works to imrove relations with the USA doesn't mean he's trying to make Canada like the USA, he's trying to make the economy more sustainable. Whether we as Canadians like it or not, we have to kiss the ass of the USA. They are what keeps the economy of this country going and will be there in a heart beat to protect our country, whos military was slashed by your Liberals.

I'm intersted to know how you think Harper's trying to make Canada more like the USA.

I'm not anti-American, I'm a duel citizen. My family roots go a lot deeper in the U.S. than Canada, 1740s compared to 1880s.

The U.S. political system reflects it's history, cultural makeup, geography and economy, and it works well for the U.S.. Why can't you conservatives be proud of your Canadian heritage and stop trying to be like Americans.

Saying we have to kiss Americas ass is just ignorant. Last I heard there was more Canadian dollars invested south of the border than vice versa. The American military was also slashed in the 1990s with base closures and cancelling of major projects. What happened in Canada was not unique.

Once again a conservative government is trying to decentralize the federal government on the American model. It doesn't reflect Canadian culture and hostory and it's going to lay the groundwork for a whole new sovereignty fight. Harper has already decided that Quebec constitutes a nation.

Oh give me a break on the whole " The American military was also slashed in the 1990s with base closures and cancelling of major projects. What happened in Canada was not unique."

So you don't know too much about the military eh?

Let's do a little comparison.

It is true that the Yanks shut down some Cold War era bases as they were no longer required to give the Russian Bear a bloody nose.

The Liberals presided over the ‘rust-out’ of the Army. Cancelled the rotary wing support we so badly needed in 1995 with the Merlin cancellation. Disbanded the premier infantry battalion (the Airborne Regt.) and generally ran the CF into the ground.

Hillier was bang on, it was a “decade of darkness”. He was being too nice, the darkness set in when the Services were forced to amalgamate in 1969 by another Liberal government bent on ridding the Canadian Forces of tradition, heritage and Esprit-de-Corps because it looked a tad too colonial and might annoy the Quebeckers.

The US on the other hand carried on it’s modernisation program, re-equipped to fight a ‘three front war’, upped its naval battle groups, bought enhanced strategic airlift, invested heavily in Special Forces and ‘out of theatre’ operations and upgraded it’s expeditionary capability, something we are just about getting a handle on with the C17 purchase.

The Liberals have been quite forward in their disdain for the Forces and it has been duly noted by those of us who served during the Liberal eras.

You should know that the much maligned ‘right wing’ of CKA has a very high proportion of ex-military members, some still serving.
You should make a note of that before you give us any more ill-informed sound bites from the Liberal la-la land of dishonour in all things defence orientated.

If you're wondering why this attitude angers me so much consider a few fact, over 58,000 American were killed in the Vietnam War. Almost twice as many veterans, over 100,000, committed suide after they came home. They weren't adequately supported by the military, the American people or it's government.

I don't care how well funded a military is, it's only as good as it's civilian leaders who decide how it's going to be used. Putting too much reliance on the military also influnces how a government will act. If the American military wasn't as large as it is and hadn't consumed as much of the budget as it does, I doubt Bush and Cheney would have led the country into the Iraq disaster. And it is a disaster.

And before you get on my ass for saying that consider the fact I have two family members serving there I worry about every day. Ones an armor officer and another is a nurse, so they'll be seeing the gruesome side of war. I support them by wanting them to get out of an insane war that has no real objectives. Americans already know the outcome of a war like this, a lot of people die and get maimed before someboby realizes there's no sense to it.

This latest case of neglect of wounded soldier on the part of the DoD is just more evidence of where it's priorities lie. There were reports of substandard conditions in hospitals in 2003. How would you feel if you'd been wounded fighting for your country and had to use an outhouse at the ward where you were recuperating. Or how about the troops in the field who have been forced to improvise their own vehicle and body armor.

The Canadian military has it's own issues in this area, and needs to do a better job when it comes to treating PTSD seriously. And the Defence Staff has no business meddling in domestic politics. If Hillier wants to support the conservatives he can do it like everyone else, as a private citizen.

Our military is here to support the nation, not the other way around. It's a disgrace the way the PM is using the Canadian armed forces as just another wedge issue.

[EyeBrock]

dougC dougC:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

dougC dougC:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

dougC dougC:

Any Liberal leader was going to get hit hard after the leadership convention, the fact Harper came out swinging the way he has shows the threat he sees Dion to be.

Canadian unity is a balancing act that wouldn't survive the removal of Quebec. And there's only one party that has shown they have the will and ability to manage it. The conservatives under Mulroney were far to concerned with influences from south of the border and Harper is no different. If anything he's more focused on making Canada more like the states. We've already been down that road and know where it leads. Sovereignty crisis.

I think the CPC saw Dion as a minor threat, easily toppled by advertisements. They worked to a charm. Dion's an easy target.

What's with the anti-American attitude from you Liberals? Canada MUST work with the United States. PEROID. Because Harper works to imrove relations with the USA doesn't mean he's trying to make Canada like the USA, he's trying to make the economy more sustainable. Whether we as Canadians like it or not, we have to kiss the ass of the USA. They are what keeps the economy of this country going and will be there in a heart beat to protect our country, whos military was slashed by your Liberals.

I'm intersted to know how you think Harper's trying to make Canada more like the USA.

I'm not anti-American, I'm a duel citizen. My family roots go a lot deeper in the U.S. than Canada, 1740s compared to 1880s.

The U.S. political system reflects it's history, cultural makeup, geography and economy, and it works well for the U.S.. Why can't you conservatives be proud of your Canadian heritage and stop trying to be like Americans.

Saying we have to kiss Americas ass is just ignorant. Last I heard there was more Canadian dollars invested south of the border than vice versa. The American military was also slashed in the 1990s with base closures and cancelling of major projects. What happened in Canada was not unique.

Once again a conservative government is trying to decentralize the federal government on the American model. It doesn't reflect Canadian culture and hostory and it's going to lay the groundwork for a whole new sovereignty fight. Harper has already decided that Quebec constitutes a nation.

Oh give me a break on the whole " The American military was also slashed in the 1990s with base closures and cancelling of major projects. What happened in Canada was not unique."

So you don't know too much about the military eh?

Let's do a little comparison.

It is true that the Yanks shut down some Cold War era bases as they were no longer required to give the Russian Bear a bloody nose.

The Liberals presided over the ‘rust-out’ of the Army. Cancelled the rotary wing support we so badly needed in 1995 with the Merlin cancellation. Disbanded the premier infantry battalion (the Airborne Regt.) and generally ran the CF into the ground.

Hillier was bang on, it was a “decade of darkness”. He was being too nice, the darkness set in when the Services were forced to amalgamate in 1969 by another Liberal government bent on ridding the Canadian Forces of tradition, heritage and Esprit-de-Corps because it looked a tad too colonial and might annoy the Quebeckers.

The US on the other hand carried on it’s modernisation program, re-equipped to fight a ‘three front war’, upped its naval battle groups, bought enhanced strategic airlift, invested heavily in Special Forces and ‘out of theatre’ operations and upgraded it’s expeditionary capability, something we are just about getting a handle on with the C17 purchase.

The Liberals have been quite forward in their disdain for the Forces and it has been duly noted by those of us who served during the Liberal eras.

You should know that the much maligned ‘right wing’ of CKA has a very high proportion of ex-military members, some still serving.
You should make a note of that before you give us any more ill-informed sound bites from the Liberal la-la land of dishonour in all things defence orientated.

If you're wondering why this attitude angers me so much consider a few fact, over 58,000 American were killed in the Vietnam War. Almost twice as many veterans, over 100,000, committed suide after they came home. They weren't adequately supported by the military, the American people or it's government.

I don't care how well funded a military is, it's only as good as it's civilian leaders who decide how it's going to be used. Putting too much reliance on the military also influnces how a government will act. If the American military wasn't as large as it is and hadn't consumed as much of the budget as it does, I doubt Bush and Cheney would have led the country into the Iraq disaster. And it is a disaster.

And before you get on my ass for saying that consider the fact I have two family members serving there I worry about every day. Ones an armor officer and another is a nurse, so they'll be seeing the gruesome side of war. I support them by wanting them to get out of an insane war that has no real objectives. Americans already know the outcome of a war like this, a lot of people die and get maimed before someboby realizes there's no sense to it.

This latest case of neglect of wounded soldier on the part of the DoD is just more evidence of where it's priorities lie. There were reports of substandard conditions in hospitals in 2003. How would you feel if you'd been wounded fighting for your country and had to use an outhouse at the ward where you were recuperating. Or how about the troops in the field who have been forced to improvise their own vehicle and body armor.

The Canadian military has it's own issues in this area, and needs to do a better job when it comes to treating PTSD seriously. And the Defence Staff has no business meddling in domestic politics. If Hillier wants to support the conservatives he can do it like everyone else, as a private citizen.

Our military is here to support the nation, not the other way around. It's a disgrace the way the PM is using the Canadian armed forces as just another wedge issue.

Yes, yes, we all agree, but what has that massive ramble got to do with the Canadian Forces?

Hillier is the CDS, he has a right to defend his troops. He called it as it was. The Liberals decimated the CF.
What's the alternative, the tame CDS's appointed in the past like Baril who said nothing as our military was run into the ground?

You really should gen up on this stuff before you post anymore utter bollocks on this. Your lack of knowledge re the Canadian Forces is quite astounding for one so vocal.

Empty vessels and all that.....

[grainfedprairieboy]

dougC dougC:

Or how about the troops in the field who have been forced to improvise their own vehicle and body armor.

We used to put blast blankets on the floor of the iltis and sit on our flak vests due to mines.

Good times.

[dougC]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

You should know that the much maligned ‘right wing’ of CKA has a very high proportion of ex-military members, some still serving.
You should make a note of that before you give us any more ill-informed sound bites from the Liberal la-la land of dishonour in all things defence orientated.

Great recipe for a healthy democracy btw, "don't say anything that might offend the guys with the guns". It shows the lack of respect for the people of Canada that Harper is encouraging our military officials to get directly involved in the domestic politics of this country.

Throw in two politically motivated police investigations last election(that proved baseless) and the conservatives have us headed down a road where we may not have to worry about having a democracy anymore. A right wing paradise I guess.