[Yogi]

They are getting 25 times what they are being paid for in Russia, to them they would be silly not to. This job can be done by locals but they are not even treading water if they do so with a wage on par with McDonald's with even less benefits or opportunities for training or advancement. The locals that want more are moving to the oil patch to find it in order to pay for education. The Russians, if they stay, will be forced to make the same choice. If they are here on a temporary work visa they get to go home with their Canadian wage and spend it in Russia at 25 times the rate.

AGAIN! Let's stick to the FACTS that have been presented!!!
No where has it been stated by anyone that foreign workers are being or are going to be paid any more in any way than what is being offered to the local people!

If foreign workers can come here and make a living at the offered rate of pay WHY CAN'T THE LOCAL POPULACE????

AGAIN! No one has said that one group of workers would be paid more than another for the same work. Both groups of people will be faced with the SAME LIVING EXPENSES!

[Ripcat]

Yogi Yogi:

The question here is: If the foreign workers can live on the wages being offered, why can't the locals? Both groups are faced with the SAME LIVING EXPENSES!

NO THEY AREN'T! The Russians have no mortgage. No car payments. No insurance payments of any kind. No phone. No internet access. NO DEBT IN CANADA! It would surprise me if they let families come over for a $9/hr job so I'd say there are no child expenses either.

Canadian residents would rather wait table for $7/hr plus tips than make fish sticks IMO. I know I would. A nice clean job for $8/hr as a Wal-Mart employee would be better. At least at Wal-Mart, if you have any smarts at all you could get a promotion of some sort or at least rotate job descriptions through cashiers, greeters, stocking shelves or working in different departments. Anything has got to be better than cleaning fish all day or stinking of fish within an hour of starting work.

[Motorcycleboy]

Iceowl, as usual you're on dope. Arctic and I have had a fairly intelligent ralley going on this topic and you've just chimed in with your typical mindless snipes without addressing the points raised. I'm not going to respond to most of them because it's beneath anyone with an IQ above 8 to do so.

But this one comment of yours can't go unchallenged;

IceOwl IceOwl:

Paying down debt is a useless gesture as long as our debt is in the hands of private banks.

Please explain that, because it is without a doubt the STUPIDEST comment I've ever read on this site.

[Motorcycleboy]

Ripcat Ripcat:

NO THEY AREN'T! The Russians have no mortgage. No car payments. No insurance payments of any kind. No phone. No internet access. NO DEBT IN CANADA! It would surprise me if they let families come over for a $9/hr job so I'd say there are no child expenses either.

Canadian residents would rather wait table for $7/hr plus tips than make fish sticks IMO. I know I would. A nice clean job for $8/hr as a Wal-Mart employee would be better. At least at Wal-Mart, if you have any smarts at all you could get a promotion of some sort or at least rotate job descriptions through cashiers, greeters, stocking shelves or working in different departments. Anything has got to be better than cleaning fish all day or stinking of fish within an hour of starting work.

What you are saying, in effect, is that we need an EI program not because there aren't any jobs, but because there aren't enough jobs that are up to your standards.

Sorry, that's not what the program is supposed to be about. As a taxpayer, I have no problem paying into a Provincial welfare program that keeps the bottom rungs of the social ladder from starving to death. I have no problem paying to educate children. And I have no problem paying for a health care system.

But I resent subsidizing people in Charlottetown who don't feel the jobs on offer there are up to their standards and would prefer to suck off the lucrative government teat instead.

If they don't like what's on offer, then they should move west, join the army, or go back to school. Don't expect me to feed your laziness.

[Motorcycleboy]

$1:

Yogi:
If foreign workers can come here and make a living at the offered rate of pay WHY CAN'T THE LOCAL POPULACE????

That question says it all Yogi.

The answer is because decades of government handouts in the Maritimes have convinced people that it's acceptable to sit on their asses all day taking handouts when jobs are available just down the street.

Stephen Harper, back when he was less concerned with being elected and more concerned with speaking the truth, had it right when he talked about the "Culture of Dependency" that afflicted Maritimers.

[Scape]

Yogi Yogi:

If foreign workers can come here and make a living at the offered rate of pay WHY CAN'T THE LOCAL POPULACE????

Do you want to work for 9$/hr for the rest of your life? Your comparing the needs of short term workers to that of the locals. Most of which have already left to work out west. The fact is that this job does not have the grab for the type of labour in that market because it is already dry of it. EI isn't going to change that. The locals had to have gotten that EI from another job in the 1st place so they did pay into that program already. Why should they give up the training and wage opportunities presented by EI in exchange for working in a dead end job?

[SireJoe]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Ripcat Ripcat:

NO THEY AREN'T! The Russians have no mortgage. No car payments. No insurance payments of any kind. No phone. No internet access. NO DEBT IN CANADA! It would surprise me if they let families come over for a $9/hr job so I'd say there are no child expenses either.

Canadian residents would rather wait table for $7/hr plus tips than make fish sticks IMO. I know I would. A nice clean job for $8/hr as a Wal-Mart employee would be better. At least at Wal-Mart, if you have any smarts at all you could get a promotion of some sort or at least rotate job descriptions through cashiers, greeters, stocking shelves or working in different departments. Anything has got to be better than cleaning fish all day or stinking of fish within an hour of starting work.

What you are saying, in effect, is that we need an EI program not because there aren't any jobs, but because there aren't enough jobs that are up to your standards.

Sorry, that's not what the program is supposed to be about. As a taxpayer, I have no problem paying into a Provincial welfare program that keeps the bottom rungs of the social ladder from starving to death. I have no problem paying to educate children. And I have no problem paying for a health care system.

But I resent subsidizing people in Charlottetown who don't feel the jobs on offer there are up to their standards and would prefer to suck off the lucrative government teat instead.

If they don't like what's on offer, then they should move west, join the army, or go back to school. Don't expect me to feed your laziness.

I agree with that. If the simple fact of the matter is that they do not want to do it cause the work sucks....then they shouldnt expect anything at all. If there were NO jobs it might be a different story. I definately agree, if you dont like whats being offered, suck it up and move somewhere else.

[Motorcycleboy]

Scape Scape:

This doesn't even touch on issues such as sexual harassment in the workplace, wrongful dismissal, lock outs and plant closures. All of which happen every day but EI softens the impact on the economy and get the unemployed back to work with a minimum of down time or loss.

It's not likely to touch on those issues either.

Sexual harrassment in the workplace isn't a matter for EI. It's a matter for the courts, Labour Relations Boards, and Human Rights Commissions. The same goes for "wrongful dismissal."

Lock-outs are the result of a labour dispute. Surely Scape, you do realize that employees on strike or lock-out aren't entitled to EI payments. You do know that, don't you?

Plant closures are a legitimate argument for EI. But in an economy with virtual full employment, as Canada now enjoys, I think it's time to wrap up the program and expect people to get another job if their plant closes.

[Ripcat]

What I'm saying is $9/hr is not a wage someone will work for 12 months a year if they can make alot more as a seasonal fisherman and collect unemployment during the down time.

$9x40hrs/week = 360 dollars gross/week.

If they make enough while they are employed they can gross $400/week while on EI.

You can't collect EI perpetually, you need to be employed at some point.

Also, the employer here doesn't want to hire a bunch of people who are suddenly going to be gone for a few months during their busiest time. The people you are refering to are not employable by this employer.

If all the fishermen left then this employer would have to close down wouldn't they? If there is noone harvesting the seafood then the employer has no product to process so they would have to close....

These people aren't lazy. If there were jobs that earned them as much or more than the way things are currently they would jump at the opportunity. I'm sure many would rather not risk their lives on the open water and be gone from there family months at a time if they had a viable alternative that paid them the same yearly income.

[Motorcycleboy]

$1:

Scape
Do you want to work for 9$/hr for the rest of your life?

So what are you saying. That it's better to work for $15 an hour for 3 months a year for the rest of one's life? That's what EI encourages.

$1:

Why should they give up the training and wage opportunities presented by EI in exchange for working in a dead end job?

I have no problem with job training or skills upgrading programs. But I don't see how subsidizing Maritimers (or anyone else for that matter) to sit on their asses 9 months a year addresses that issue.

[Ripcat]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Surely Scape, you do realize that employees on strike or lock-out aren't entitled to EI payments. You do know that, don't you?

Surely Mcb, you do realize that you need to work to collect EI and the EI is not welfare. You do know this, don't you?

[Motorcycleboy]

$1:

Ripcat
What I'm saying is $9/hr is not a wage someone will work for 12 months a year if they can make alot more as a seasonal fisherman and collect unemployment during the down time.

Which reinforces my original point. EI was never designed to apply to seasonal workers. Fishermen have always earned their full year's salary over the course of a few months.

Subsidizing them for the remainder of the year is just a windfall.

$1:

$9x40hrs/week = 360 dollars gross/week.

There's hundred's of thousands of hard working immigrants in expensive cities like Toronto who survive on less than that.

Once again, if Maritimers don't like the wages on offer there, then they should move to Alberta, join the Army, of take up a trade and work in the Toronto building industry.

Each one of those institutions are begging for employees.

Don't expect those of us who work to subsidize laziness.

[Ripcat]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

But I don't see how subsidizing Maritimers (or anyone else for that matter) to sit on their asses 9 months a year addresses that issue.

So who is going do do their jobs then? Do we have Canadians work in the processing factory and bring Russians over to do the lucrative seasonal work?

[Motorcycleboy]

Ripcat Ripcat:

So who is going do do their jobs then? Do we have Canadians work in the processing factory and bring Russians over to do the lucrative seasonal work?

I would suggest we need fewer people employed as fishermen. That's what Iceland, a North Atlantic nation with a fish based economy, does. And Iceland is far more prosperous than the Maritimes. Of course, Iceland has no choice, as they can't rely on genorous transfer payments from Alberta and Ontario every year.

Fewer people doing the job means more income for those remaining.

The others can look into the other options I've mentioned.

[Yogi]

Scape Scape:

Yogi Yogi:

If foreign workers can come here and make a living at the offered rate of pay WHY CAN'T THE LOCAL POPULACE????

Do you want to work for 9$/hr for the rest of your life? Your comparing the needs of short term workers to that of the locals. Most of which have already left to work out west. The fact is that this job does not have the grab for the type of labour in that market because it is already dry of it. EI isn't going to change that. The locals had to have gotten that EI from another job in the 1st place so they did pay into that program already. Why should they give up the training and wage opportunities presented by EI in exchange for working in a dead end job?

Noooo, I wouldn't want to work for $9.00/hr for the rest of my life!! But I did do some shitty jobs for shitty pay in years gone by.And some of them didn't pay AS MUCH as welfare or EI, but I maintained my self-respect!And it didn't take me too long to catch on to the fact that +education = + $$. So I enrolled at local college and upgraded AND WORKED- ( I already had high school diploma). Any additional education is looked upon favorably by a prospective employer! I also got into a trade at $ 6.00/hr starting wage. For a few YEARS I had to decide which bills got paid, which ones didn't, Bought eggs by the crate, planted a garden. In short learned to live on next to fuckall!!As my experience in the trade progressed, so did my income. Several times I had to uproot and move my family, as much as a 1000 miles to find work and sometimes I had to be away from my family for several months at a time. I kept at it and it has now paid off quite well.
This is something that foreign workers have caught on to. They are willing to take the shitty jobs that are 'beneath' Canadians' standards.They live on 'next to fuck-all' and work hard and it pays off for them too.
The difference between them and me is that people look at what I have achieved and congratulate me for 'working so hard' and the same people look at the foreign worker and say' That fucker took a GOOD JOB from a Canadian!!
Case in point; Mac's convenience stores. Mama works 12 hours day shift while papa stays home with the kid's and tries to get some sleep so that he can go work the store for 12 hours night-shift while mama stays with the kid's. They do this 24/7 until the store is paid for and then they hire 'whiney Canadians' to work for them!And now while Canadians deride them they just smile and nod as they head off to the bank to make another healthy deposit! You'll never see a Canadian couple apply themselves this diligently.Why the hell should they? After all, They can get EI benefits!!!